Really? Looks to me like the debate is OVER! More regulations to combat a non-existant boogie man = more people out of work. What irks me is these unionized workers continute to blindly vote for the people who will eventually throw them under the bus if this garbage is allowed to go thru.

Again, I must reiterate. NOT GUILTY!

Thanks for the link. Interesting story.

This article proves once again that all politics are local.

Detroit needs to stop whining. They've gotten a free pass for the past twenty five years, and now that free pass is about to expire. Detroit is already in bad shape and it has nothing to do with regulations. It has to do with the fact that they make crappy cars.

Oiznop,

There won't be a bus to throw them under! They will be outlawed due to emissions, remember? :-)

Nah, buses are great...they can transport 50 people at once.

Detroit needs to stop whining. They've gotten a free pass for the past twenty five years, and now that free pass is about to expire. Detroit is already in bad shape and it has nothing to do with regulations. It has to do with the fact that they make crappy cars.

REPLY: Wait a minute! WHAAAAAT??? Have you been living in a cave the last 25 years? Honestly, Marko, you really have no clue do ya? Over the last 25 years, automobiles coming out of Detroit have become more fuel efficient and safer, with much improved quality, especially with the demise of the carburetor and the advent of feul injection. You will probably respond by saying "Yeah, it's because of government regulations that you're so against." Well my friend, if that is the case, the you need to prove how Detroit has gotten a free pass all of these years. Where have they received a free pass? Oh, and by the by, as far as "crappy cars" coming out of Detroit, my Detroit engineered car (1999 Chevy Cavalier) has served me well low these last 8 years (and counting), with very good fuel efficency. So you just go a head and toot around town in your Yugo, or bicycle to save the trees, and I will continue to live in the modern world with my American made "crappy" car!

Buses stink literally. They are slow, clog up the roads and spew out far more crap than the fifty cars around them. At least in a mass transit setting, their only purpose is to provide government jobs for people and inefficiently use tax money. Other areas may be better, but here in Ohio, my opinion is that they don't do well.

You see this really is all about politics in the end.

Maybe Oiznop will let us know why, if GM makes such great cars, the company is tanking? Oh, I remember. It's those awful unions. All those medical expenses. It has nothing to do with shoddy execution of bad design -- nothing to do with the fact that every other carmaker in the world builds a better car, and nothing whatsoever to do with generations of executives lining their pockets at the expense of their workers and customers.

Oh, and by the way, have any you looked at Detroit -- as in the city where people used to live -- lately? When was the last time you checked out real estate prices in the Detroit metropolitan area? Whatever our culture -- including both government AND business -- has done, it has devastated the city.

$10/gallon gasoline is still the best way to improve economy and cut emissions.

Darren,
Care to provide proof that one bus pollutes more than 50 cars? Or that it emits more CO2 than 50 cars? I think you're exaggerating only to solidify whatever point you're trying to make.

Where I live, buses run on natural gas. They probably pollute less than one automobile.

Buses might pollute more in Ohio, but that's because their air quality standards aren't as strict. Wow, regulations actually do make the air cleaner -- who would have thought??

Speaking of driving slow and clogging up the roads -- do you realize that the reason our roads are jammed with traffic -- i.e. slow and clogged up -- is because mass transit is terrible in this country? Funny that.

Ozio,
The average MPG for the American fleet hasn't budged in 20 years. If anything, our fuel standards were a little higher about 20 years ago. Their cars are cleaner, yes, but that's because of those dreaded regulations you hate so much.

Mark/Darren - There's another solution to making busses less polluting, but the profit motive works against it. Aromatics in diesel affect combustion and produce soot. Ultra-low aromatics diesel with quite high cetane can be made by gas-to-liquids technology (methane conversion). However, although gas-to-liquids (GTL) is economically competitive with oil right now, the oil companies can make more from selling natural gas as gas than the liquids that can be made from gas due to the enormous capital expenditure required for GTL plants. While some oil companies and SASOL are getting into 2nd generation GTL, it is much slower in coming than it could be. And even when this ultra-clean diesel is made on a large scale, don't expect to see it coming out of your pump. The oil companies will likely blend it with low value dirty streams to get the mix right up to the limits allowed by regulation.

Maybe Oiznop will let us know why, if GM makes such great cars, the company is tanking? Oh, I remember. It's those awful unions. All those medical expenses. It has nothing to do with shoddy execution of bad design -- nothing to do with the fact that every other carmaker in the world builds a better car, and nothing whatsoever to do with generations of executives lining their pockets at the expense of their workers and customers.

Oh, and by the way, have any you looked at Detroit -- as in the city where people used to live -- lately? When was the last time you checked out real estate prices in the Detroit metropolitan area? Whatever our culture -- including both government AND business -- has done, it has devastated the city.

$10/gallon gasoline is still the best way to improve economy and cut emissions.

REPLY: Tom, you have finally lost it! If you are wishing for $10.00 per gallon of gas, and thinking that is going to improve the economy, you need to seek therapy and fast. Somebody call a doctor! And there you go again, with your Greed Greed Greed Greed and exploitation of the working man, we must share the wealth spew. It's all attributed to greed. Wha! Wha! Wha! I suppose you are a Michael Moore fan and have a copy of "Roger and Me" in your DVD collection, eh? GM held the position of top auto maker in the world for years. You don't get that way by making "poorly designed" cars. It's only up until now that Toyota toppled them. Oh, by the by, you can have fun in your Yugo too! I am sure Marko would be willing to share his. Seeing you both crammed into it with no air conditioning in an effort to save the whales would make my day.

Their cars are cleaner, yes, but that's because of those dreaded regulations you hate so much.

REPLY: So rightfully so, we need more, don't we Marko? To stick it to those evil corporations and their evil profits, right old buddy?

So Oiznop, why is GM tanking if its vehicles are so great?

Why are property values in Detroit plummeting?

Amidst all your sputtering and ranting, you seem to have forgotten to answer the question.

Speaking of 1999 Chevy Cavaliers -- I owned a '99 Cavalier too.

It ran great for the first three year warranty period. How convenient. After that, however, was a nightmare. I paid close to $4000 in repair costs for various things that went wrong with the car. It got to a point where I traded in the car and bought a brand new one because the repair costs on the car were exceeding the value of the car.

It's no wonder why GM is going down the toilet.

So Oiznop, why is GM tanking if its vehicles are so great?

Why are property values in Detroit plummeting?

REPLY: Ok, since Brett did not post my initial response, which essentially said "do you really want me to answer this question, because it may make you cry?", I will now answer the question.

Property values in Detroit are plummeting for the same reason they have dropped in Pittsburgh. Detroit is an aging blue collar rust belt city that has been held hostage by Democratic machine local politics that have turned from being a thriving metropolis to a dump, thanks to your touchy feely high taxes and big government at the local level. Not to metion the unions and their excessive demands on (the automotive) industry which forced GM to close plants in places like Flint, where your big (and I mean BIG) hero, Michael Moore shot his propaganda piece "Roger and Me." Thus forcing the workforce to seek employment elsewhere in other parts of the country that are more business friendly, and floruishing economically because such restrictions are not as harsh. Not because of your rantings about corporate greed. Happy now, Dr. Guilt? Or is the truth too much for you? As for GM tanking, ever hear of a little old phenomena called competition from other automotive companies? Did you ever consider that no one stays on top forever? Just ask your other hero's at the Comedy Broadcast System. They ought to know.

And as for you, Marko, tell me, if your 1999 Cavalier was such a lemon, what did you trade it in for? i.e., how's your Yugo running????

NOT GUILTY!