Wait, scientists who are funded by public funds don't have to provide the public with their raw data and methods, unlike private companies that provide products to the govt, and are required to transfer IP to the govt, but..

someone thinks that private insurance companies should disclose their proprietery pricing models? No one has a right that information, and you only have a right to buy insurance at a price that someone is willing to sell it you.

I find it interesting that the article said that the insurance companies were using GW as an "opportunity" to increase rates. Also, the state of Florida reinsuring properties? Strange how the spokesperson said that provided there are no big storms, the state will do financially very well. What the heck does that mean? Is government planning to profit off of the AGW fear as well?

What will the AGWers out there do when Big insurance and government moves in on their portion of the treasure that is AGW fraud?

The climate modelers at IPCC promised us that their recommendations wouldn't cost us anything.

Apparently their financial predictions are as accurate as their climate predictions.

Everybody is desperately trying to cash in before it all falls through. Insurance companies, governments, researchers and of course Carbon credit snake oil salesmen.
I am wondering who will be held liable in the enevitable law suits when this whole scam is finally revealed. Could be one hell of a feeding frenzie by the legal profession.

The China Daily on Thursday quoted meteorological experts as saying the recent high temperatures increased the chances of sleet or snow.
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSPEK25947220070802?pageNumber=2

Gotta love those experts....

This is actually my first time posting though I must admit that I spend almost everyday reading these forums. In all that time I've wanted to respond to a vast majority of posts... I guess this is as good a time as any.

I have to agree with Gunnar on this... What I've gathered is the IPCC has taken into their heads the outstanding Douglas Adams and his great series the HHGTTG (the answer 42...but we don't know the question) with its probability of this and probability of that... and apparently they don't have to show much scientific work (if any) to say they're right and everyone else is wrong. So it seems just as fair that private businesses shouldn't have to disclose any of their information either.

On the other hand... it does seem to me that this whole situation is a little SNAFU. Instead of trying to work together to resolve the issue the 'True Believers' are close minded to the point of being obtuse and blind at times and the 'skeptics' are adamant that they will be heard giving them the stubborness to ram their heads into that wall just one more time...

It seems to me that should this situation continue in all areas of the AGW (mullarky) debate, with the fighting and whatnot, that the year 3008 will get here before anyone really gets anything done about it... not that there is really much to do about it. This dreadful fued will be passed on to our children and their children and their children after them until they realize that the bad things did not happen and to celebrate they all go down to the pub reliving the soon to be forgotten battle... I'm not for taking personal freedoms, I'm not for others telling me how to live my life. I can't stop the prices of gas or insurance (as the case were) from going where ever the bloody heck they want to... and most of all I can't control climate. In fact of all of those that one seems to be the least likely to occur. I could not buy gas (I have two feet and 24 hours in the day for a reason) and I could find another insurance company... but I can not very well look at Mother Earth and stamp my little foot and huff, "Now see here! You stop that cavorting around with temperatures this minute! Shame on you for behaving as such! Go to your room this instance! Melting Ice... why if your father was here (pause left for dramatic effect) Don't you look at me in that tone of voice!"

Something tells me she just wouldn't fall for it. That same something tells me that Al Gore and his bunch couldn't do it either... Although I eagerly await the day Al Gore dons his cape and masked crusader git up to go do battle with the 'naughty climate'. He wrote a book... or did a movie or something. Maybe both. Alot of people have written books... someone had mentioned Church of Scientology with something akin to scorn... I can't remember who but if its one espousing the terrors of GW... isn't that kinda the pot calling the kettle black?

At any rate... insurance companies are thinking of raising their rates. Good for them. They have the foresight to cash in on this bit of Doom and Gloom. I'll bet if you look back (hard enough) you might find that when there was a hole in the Ozone (or could be a hole in the Ozone... insert suspensful music here) there were probably businesses striving for the same thing. I'm certain anytime a person has stood upon a soap box espousing an 'end of the world as we know it' scenario that got this much attention chances are there was someone behind them looking to earn a few coins on the way. Afore... we called them scam artists... now we apparently call them consensus.

Oh, as a personal aside to Mark... I have no agenda. I'm 25 and work 40+ hrs a week. I have no political affiliation and generally speak from the heart.

And as a personal aside to Oiz (if he's still around) I'm sorry I have no political affiliation. It seems to me that all the political crap just creates undue drama and I get that enough just stepping outside my front door.

And as a personal aside to both Brookline (if he's still around) and Gunnar... you two are absolutely amazing. Apart you two make fine opponents to the situation. Together however... well... guess we don't have to worry about 'what could be'. The IPCC has that pretty much covered.

Paul and Patrick, I admire both of you for standing up for what you believe in with gusto. At first I loved the idea of getting my own personal weather report on places possibly not affected by heat. Then I realized that if I really wanted to know I have accuweather.com to look it up. Keep up the good fight... but perhaps upgrade your weaponry?

To IPCC man (you know who you are)... So which church are you going in for? Al Gore's or the IPCC? In the end... do you get to go to a place that's nice and cool without fear of evil SUVs or Mother Nature's control? Is it all numbers and probability?

To Brett, I was really upset to see the last moderator go. I'm glad that you are here to pick up the thread. Best of luck to you in your endeavors and may your forecasts... only be off a little.

Last of all to all I've missed... All of you bring something of importance to this forum... be it a jest (Darren) a story from the past (Mary... I think?), or mayhaps even Darwinism brought down to its knees (Bloom) and even if the people that are constantly posting or responding in the forums do not listen I want you to know that you are being heard... not just those I've missed but all of you. Keep up the good fight ladies and gentlemen. In the meantime (since this doesn't look like it will end anytime soon) I should like to provide a defintion that apparently needs to be reviewed... granted oft times words mean various things... and I am being a bit biased by showing you this one definition... but hey, if it bothers anyone that bad you can always look it up ^_^

consensus

noun
agreement in the judgment or opinion reached by a group as a whole; "the lack of consensus reflected differences in theoretical positions"; "those rights and obligations are based on an unstated consensus"

So... by using this one definition... we don't have consensus as long as there are people fighting, right?

In closing I would just like to remind everyone that the world sucks... which is a good thing because if it didn't we'd all fall off!

This bit of stuff brought to you by: Average Joe.

Sorry its muddled... its 4am here ^_^

Martian snow turns out to be rock hard. Worse, it is melting away at an alarming rate. In fact, Mars may be in the midst of a period of profound climate change, according to a new study that shows dramatic year-to-year losses of snow at the south pole.
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/mars_snow_011206-1.html

Two obvious conclusions arise from this-

1. If those Martians would have just raised taxes, this could have been avoided.

2. It is the Republicans fault.

I moved to PA from Long Island,NY 2 years ago. My insurance on a 2200 sq ft house was $5,500. In PA I have a 3,000 sq ft house with an additional 2,500 sq ft unfinished. My insurance dropped to $280.

Whether global warming is a factor or not, insurance companies will continue to use it as an excuse to raise rates. With the current up cycle in Atlantic hurricanes, we could easily have a repeat of the hurricane of 1938, without any global warming casual effect at all. Can you imagine the rates after such a storm? Also in states with any substantial coastline, rates in the entire state could go up as the state distributes insurance costs throughout their territory. That's one of the reasons I picked PA, since I have to work in New York City. I would not be surprised if insurance(& other costs)cause a reversal in migration patterns in the future favoring inland locations & Northern lattitudes.

AJ:

Well written.

I am glad someone appreciates the humor in all this. Well, at least what I find to be humorous.

AJ:

It's good to be an average Joe. You are the very backbone of this society. Now, go to bed and get some rest. You have to go to work and help pay for the wacky solutions that are about to be imposed on us.

My own insurance provider Allstate among others including State Farm will not give me a home insurance policy in Virginia Beach. They have made the decision not to write any new policies east of Williamsburg Virginia due to hurricanes, global warming et al.

That's interesting Daniel. I lived in the Virginia Beach area for several years. Sandbridge was especially onerous with houses right on the beach. It was my understanding at the time that casualty insurance was so high that the state had to subsidize it for homeowners in that area.