what a revelation...an MIT scientist has concluded that the only industry that will benefit from a carbon tax is the gas industry because it will be the one that is the least taxed...DUH!!!!...too bad the article doesnt mention one word that the industry that is going to hurt the most is the consumer...as i have said before, the agw scamsters care little about who they hurt with their lies, and now, low and behold, an MIT egghead supposedly has just thought of it...what a circus this is...

Not directly related to this topic, but this video shows what Bill O'Reilly thinks of AGW deniers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD39QY8ew3c

My sentiments exactly.

Coal is a very dirty fuel and dangerous to mine.
I hope those miners are alive, but realistically, their chances are slim.

Besides coals impact on Global Warming, it also spews a lot of other pollution into the atmosphere.

The sulfate aerosol from coal has been credited
by the IPCC with some cooling.
However, sulfate aerosols do not last very long in the atmosphere. Within a few years, they are removed by rain. Sulfate aerosols levels stabilized years ago and now global warming is limited only by Greenhouse gas levels. Carbon dioxide remains in the atmosphere for a very long time, so Global Warming will be around for a long time. The best we can hope for is to stabilize greenhouse gas levels before it is too late.

As greenhouses gas levels continue to rise, seasonal snow and arctic sea ice are melting to progressively lower levels. This provides a positive feedback and result in more heating, more melting, rising sea levels and heavier precipitation events.

The earths climate still has a chance, but only if decisive action is taken to limit emissions of greenhouse gases from burning more coal than needed. Natural gas is safer and much better for the atmosphere.

Rich�s theory.

The global warming debate is over! Both sides of the argument are correct, to a degree. Please take 5 minutes and read this to its conclusion. You'll see why.

Carbon dioxide (CO2) and other gases react and dissolve with water, especially COLD water. WARMER waters help to introduce water vapor into the atmosphere. This increased moisture content builds and builds and is eventually worked to the upper levels of the atmosphere through wind. Conditions in the upper levels of the atmosphere are very cold, clearly colder than the surface of the earth. Condensation happens, eventually creating rain and even hail. Storm systems create a cooling effect. CO2 is a cooling agent. You�ve heard of dry ice? Anyway.

This churning of the environment is introducing H2O into the atmosphere which reacts with CO2. When they react, they form dissolved inorganic carbon, ionic (positive electrical charge) and non-ionic. The dissolved CO2/H2O produces carbonic acid (H2CO3), carbonate (CO32-), and bicarbonate (HCO3-). These new compounds fall back to the soil or into the ocean. This affects the oceans ph, its balance. This increase of ions is always naturally more positive. To regain balance, the ocean is naturally active and increases CO2 solubility to gain more of the negative. Why? The earth is a vast, complex, energized battery. It has 2 magnetic poles for a reason.

You've heard of El Nino and La Nina? This natural phenomenon causes winds that are instrumental in helping to balance atmospheric CO2 concentrations. These gas filled winds keep hurricanes over open water, pushes hurricanes toward cooler water and shears the tops of the hurricanes off. Why open water, cooler water and the tops of the hurricanes? The CO2 gases dissolve more quickly where the cooler, atmospheric H2O is. These winds pound the immense moist air. This allows for CO2 absorption. How much CO2 is removed from the atmosphere by this combination of energy and returned to earth to create new energy? I am convinced that this phenomenon is nature doing her balancing act.

Storms generate lightning. Lightning produces ozone. Ozone is a good thing.

As snow and ice recede, vegetation takes its place. The slightly warming temperature increases CO2 absorption, due to less plant dormancy and quicker growth. Ice is located further away from the equator. What kind of plant life grows further away from the equator? Conifers. Typical examples of conifers include cedars, cypresses, Douglas-firs, firs, junipers, kauris, larches, pines, redwoods, spruces, and yews.

Question: Why does your lawn not grow well around trees, but moss, ferns, etc. do?

Answer: The ph content of the soil, the acidity. The trees are releasing the carbon back into the soil naturally through decomposition. If you want more grass, you can neutralize or balance this by spreading lime, alkalinity.

Trees, especially conifers are great at absorbing CO2 and acid. They are a natural and ever expanding CO2 sink. The carbon when combined with other elements found on earth, naturally create energy. Plants need this energy! The earth is creating energy through chemistry which creates and sustains the growing life on earth. We are creating this energy by emitting CO2.

Most peoples look into greenhouse gases is incomplete. It's not all about retaining warmth. It�s also about what is contained IN the gas and how it chemically reacts, which makes it crucial in sustaining the expanding life.

The expanding atmosphere is currently made up of:

78 percent nitrogen.
21 percent oxygen.
1 percent water vapor
0.93 percent argon
0.038 percent carbon dioxide
0.002 percent other gases.

With that, yes atmospheric CO2 concentrations have increased. The evidence is well, quite evident. Why? The earth needs more greenhouse gases, because it is becoming a bigger greenhouse. This is natural, not unnatural. Animals, plants and humans are life. The earth is our greenhouse. Imagine that you are in a greenhouse. There is a lot of vibrant life in there. If the life in that greenhouse is expanding, you obviously need an increase in greenhouse gas to sustain it.

As we release more CO2, the earth doesn't know if this is from cars or from species. It doesn't care. All it does is reacts and expands its energy to balance and sustain the expanding demand for its energy. As the population grows, we need and are tapping into the earth�s potential energy, by WARMING, which in turn is creating kinetic energy, life. Warming creates and sustains life. Warming provides the earth with vegetation. Vegetation provides us with food and medicine. Vegetation provides shelter for the animals. The rain and sun provide the vegetation with the energy it needs to grow.

Side note: Newton�s Three Laws of Motion are much more complex than most people realize. The earth is in constant motion for a reason, balance. The earth is in constant motion because of the energy from wind and ocean currents and from the gravitational pull from the moon. We are creating this energy by just being.

We are living on an atom! We are the nucleus! The moon is our electron, which through revolution creates a positive charge, an ion!

Conclusion:

It is impossible for us to stop nature. Human contribution to global warming is natural. HOWEVER, we can and must slow the natural reaction down (reduce CO2 emissions) by using more efficient energy. This is absolutely imperative! If we want to prolong life and its energy, we need to conserve it and use it more efficiently. Technology is here and we need to take advantage, now! It is starting to happen through free market enterprise. If there is a growing demand for efficient, alternative energy, and there are profits to be made, it will happen because of competition through capitalism. Competition in energy will reduce the cost of oil. Reducing our dependence on oil, especially foreign oil, will help us in so many ways! Do not force this change by imposing social and economic sanctions. The human spirit and economy will not respond well to this. We must make each other aware through education, not indoctrination. This email is a good start. If we all agree and logically accept this perspective, then we are better off as a society. We must stop politicizing everything. Pass the word! You are all logical, innovative and caring people. Let us unite!

-Rich Gele�

Rich�s theory.

The global warming debate is over! Both sides of the argument are correct, to a degree. Please take 5 minutes and read this to its conclusion. You'll see why.

Carbon dioxide (CO2) and other gases react and dissolve with water, especially COLD water. WARMER waters help to introduce water vapor into the atmosphere. This increased moisture content builds and builds and is eventually worked to the upper levels of the atmosphere through wind. Conditions in the upper levels of the atmosphere are very cold, clearly colder than the surface of the earth. Condensation happens, eventually creating rain and even hail. Storm systems create a cooling effect. CO2 is a cooling agent. You�ve heard of dry ice? Anyway.

This churning of the environment is introducing H2O into the atmosphere which reacts with CO2. When they react, they form dissolved inorganic carbon, ionic (positive electrical charge) and non-ionic. The dissolved CO2/H2O produces carbonic acid (H2CO3), carbonate (CO32-), and bicarbonate (HCO3-). These new compounds fall back to the soil or into the ocean. This affects the oceans ph, its balance. This increase of ions is always naturally more positive. To regain balance, the ocean is naturally active and increases CO2 solubility to gain more of the negative. Why? The earth is a vast, complex, energized battery. It has 2 magnetic poles for a reason.

You've heard of El Nino and La Nina? This natural phenomenon causes winds that are instrumental in helping to balance atmospheric CO2 concentrations. These gas filled winds keep hurricanes over open water, pushes hurricanes toward cooler water and shears the tops of the hurricanes off. Why open water, cooler water and the tops of the hurricanes? The CO2 gases dissolve more quickly where the cooler, atmospheric H2O is. These winds pound the immense moist air. This allows for CO2 absorption. How much CO2 is removed from the atmosphere by this combination of energy and returned to earth to create new energy? I am convinced that this phenomenon is nature doing her balancing act.

Storms generate lightning. Lightning produces ozone. Ozone is a good thing.

As snow and ice recede, vegetation takes its place. The slightly warming temperature increases CO2 absorption, due to less plant dormancy and quicker growth. Ice is located further away from the equator. What kind of plant life grows further away from the equator? Conifers. Typical examples of conifers include cedars, cypresses, Douglas-firs, firs, junipers, kauris, larches, pines, redwoods, spruces, and yews.

Question: Why does your lawn not grow well around trees, but moss, ferns, etc. do?

Answer: The ph content of the soil, the acidity. The trees are releasing the carbon back into the soil naturally through decomposition. If you want more grass, you can neutralize or balance this by spreading lime, alkalinity.

Trees, especially conifers are great at absorbing CO2 and acid. They are a natural and ever expanding CO2 sink. The carbon when combined with other elements found on earth, naturally create energy. Plants need this energy! The earth is creating energy through chemistry which creates and sustains the growing life on earth. We are creating this energy by emitting CO2.

Most peoples look into greenhouse gases is incomplete. It's not all about retaining warmth. It�s also about what is contained IN the gas and how it chemically reacts, which makes it crucial in sustaining the expanding life.

The expanding atmosphere is currently made up of:

78 percent nitrogen.
21 percent oxygen.
1 percent water vapor
0.93 percent argon
0.038 percent carbon dioxide
0.002 percent other gases.

With that, yes atmospheric CO2 concentrations have increased. The evidence is well, quite evident. Why? The earth needs more greenhouse gases, because it is becoming a bigger greenhouse. This is natural, not unnatural. Animals, plants and humans are life. The earth is our greenhouse. Imagine that you are in a greenhouse. There is a lot of vibrant life in there. If the life in that greenhouse is expanding, you obviously need an increase in greenhouse gas to sustain it.

As we release more CO2, the earth doesn't know if this is from cars or from species. It doesn't care. All it does is reacts and expands its energy to balance and sustain the expanding demand for its energy. As the population grows, we need and are tapping into the earth�s potential energy, by WARMING, which in turn is creating kinetic energy, life. Warming creates and sustains life. Warming provides the earth with vegetation. Vegetation provides us with food and medicine. Vegetation provides shelter for the animals. The rain and sun provide the vegetation with the energy it needs to grow.

Side note: Newton�s Three Laws of Motion are much more complex than most people realize. The earth is in constant motion for a reason, balance. The earth is in constant motion because of the energy from wind and ocean currents and from the gravitational pull from the moon. We are creating this energy by just being.

We are living on an atom! We are the nucleus! The moon is our electron, which through revolution creates a positive charge, an ion!

Conclusion:

It is impossible for us to stop nature. Human contribution to global warming is natural. HOWEVER, we can and must slow the natural reaction down (reduce CO2 emissions) by using more efficient energy. This is absolutely imperative! If we want to prolong life and its energy, we need to conserve it and use it more efficiently. Technology is here and we need to take advantage, now! It is starting to happen through free market enterprise. If there is a growing demand for efficient, alternative energy, and there are profits to be made, it will happen because of competition through capitalism. Competition in energy will reduce the cost of oil. Reducing our dependence on oil, especially foreign oil, will help us in so many ways! Do not force this change by imposing social and economic sanctions. The human spirit and economy will not respond well to this. We must make each other aware through education, not indoctrination. This email is a good start. If we all agree and logically accept this perspective, then we are better off as a society. We must stop politicizing everything. Pass the word! You are all logical, innovative and caring people. Let us unite!

-Rich Gele�

Just more evidence of Govenment telling us what to use. Ok, let's force natural gas down everyone's throat! Sure! That's it! Let's have the government regulate the competition between energy providers, which is what this global warming nonsense is all about. How will this affect our monthly energy bills? Is Natural Gas less expensive than coal, or oil? I wonder!

As for O'Reilly, this is no surprise. I remember a few years ago that he announced to the world that he wanted to see regulations on SUVs. I was surprised then, not now. Everyone has this perception that he's a conservative because he's on Fox News. Nothing could be further from the truth.

DENY DENY DENY THE GLOBAL WARMING LIE!!!!!!

O'Reilly is conservative. But he's also an environmentalist. Yes, you can be a capitalist AND believe in government intervention when necessary. I know that doesn't jive well with the Libertarians of the world, but then again, Libertarians are extremists.

Rich, the amount of heat captured by CO2 radiated from Earth (that initially bounced off Earth as light from the Sun) surely dwarves any "storm cooling" effect (does the latter exist?) caused by marginally higher ocean temps initiating more storms.

Libertarians are extremist.;

REPLY: Since when was following the priciples upon which this country was founded extreme? To extreme for you leftists maybe? Mark, you continue to amaze. People like you would call Thomas Jefferson an extremist by these standards of yours. When quite frankly, you are the ones who are extremists. With these cock and bull theories and dreamed up leftist utopia ideas through more government regulations. I find your comment to be completely ignorant. You need to look up the definition of what a Libertarian is and what they stand for, before you go making comments like that. In fact, I'll even help ya!:

http://www.lp.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian

Yeah, some of these ideas are real extreme!
As hard as it may be, try to educate yourself before you spew your garbage.

And O'Reilly is NOT a conservative if he believes this scam that you and your side contiue to endlessly pound! He is anything but.

SAVE THE PLANET FROM HOT AIR. MUZZLE A LIBERAL!

The planet is warming - for now.
I am a denier that human production of CO2 contributes to this cyclical trend. It is far-fetched to convince me that taxation of energy to force conservation will reduce global cyclic temperature trends. Inefficient, subsidized energy production, bio-fuels, and carbon credits are avenues for such taxation.
Any such energy policy that would prescribe renewable alternatives and NOT embrace a massive adaptation of nuclear power is a recipe for an anti-growth policy.
The sky is not falling.
Carl Holder
Pasco WA USA

From your wiki link, Oz. Pretty extreme if you ask me.

"Some who self-identify as libertarians are minarchists, i.e., supportive of minimal taxation as a "necessary evil" for the limited purpose of funding public institutions that would protect civil liberties and property rights, including police, volunteer armed forces without conscription, and judicial courts. Anarcho-capitalists, by contrast, oppose all taxation, rejecting any government claim for a monopoly of protection as unnecessary. They wish to keep the government out of matters of justice and protection, preferring to delegate these issues to private groups. Anarcho-capitalists argue that the minarchist belief that any monopoly on coercion can be contained within any reasonable limits is unrealistic, and that institutionalized coercion on any scale is counterproductive. Any justification for the coercive state or alliance between business and the state, is said to result in a more efficient and thus more dangerous state - or crony capitalism."

Libertarians belong in the same category as Communists, Fascists, and Anarchists because they all have one thing in common -- they're wacko.

Um, excuse me, political man, but what does being an Anarcho-capitalists, per the way this definition reads, have to do with being a Libertarian? Translation: Libertarian = Less Government, Anarcho-capitalists = zero Government. Who among us on this thread said anything about zero Government? Wacko indeed!

The Denier