geez, seems a bit like trying to fertilize your yard with a teaspoon. Besides, what about algae bloom and fish kills or worse, a super algae that takes over the planet.

IN other news, the mid-70's here in Columbus were quite welcomed by most and much better than our "average" temp. for this time of year. Really, I do not see what the big deal is about GW. Unless of course you live on the coast in say a hundred or so years from now.

Off topic a bit but this cracks me up, I ran into a guy at the Pumpkin Festival (Yes it is a real pumpkin thing, and yes, it is fun if you like fairs, and yes, they did have pumpkin flavored funnel cakes among other pumpkin things) here in central Ohio who is convinced that one of our local rivers will rise because of the melting of the glaciers. I quickly asked him how he knew this and he stated he saw it on the news and because Al Gore said it. I further asked about his science background, of which he had none, and how much he knew about the topic. His responses were not that coherent and I refrained from getting onto my "soapbox" (like now). But I did draw him a picture (using a fortunately placed booth selling of all things maps, at a fair, go figure?)of what could happen if the water rose like the Gorecle claims. After settling him down a bit, and explaining in simple terms, it seems he has a different feel for the "problem".

Long story for the short part, the alarmist view presented by the followers of the AGW religion is doing exactly what was intended, scare the masses into believing falsehoods.

On one hand, this makes a lot of sense because most of the oceans surface waters are short of nutrients.

On the other hand, I always thought Chlorophyll had at its heart a Magnesium atom, not iron. But I'm by no means an expert on this matter.

Anyhow, sounds like a good cost effective means of removing CO2. Small scale trials should start immediately and after close monitoring expanded as long as the safety and environmental impacts are proven benefical.

I fail to see a problem. They don't know what the consequences are of any other 'solutions' either.
As for 'commercial interests', the whole scare is rife with money-making opportunists.

The biologist is no doubt spot-on. Why is he picking on this particular scheme?

'"Once the carbon is sequestered in the deep ocean, it is dispersed and impossible to audit, said Doney.' So, does this mean you can't check on the results, anyway?

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Andrew-
Yes it is magnesium in chlorophyll.

Further question for you and probably anyone else subscribing to the agw train of thought. What would the assumed drop in co2 level be, or the slope of its rise as the case may be, if all coal and oil power plants were eliminated in twenty years? I only ask because even though bussard is dead his research with polywells lead to a working model and his team is locking up funding to produce a full scale model. In his own words.."Somebody will build it; and when it's built, it will work; and when it works people will begin to use it, and it will begin to displace all other forms of energy."

Just in terms of the worst case scenarios that you and your fellow agw puporters like to bring up, what effect would pollution free power generation have on the co2 issue?

Regards, Elliot

It's interesting how Darren continues to refer to those who agree with the scientific consensus on AGW as a 'religion'. His myopic world view is also typical of most deniers -- I mean, global warming is great because, hey, he can grow more lettuce.

The Denial Machine has characteristics of a religion. Consider:

1) Rejection of the science that links humans with GW. This is not unlike evolution deniers who automatically reject science.

2) Believing that humans have no control over the climate, or even the world. This is consistent with the religious view that a higher force controls everything, and ultimately, humans can't do anything about it, therefore we shouldn't bother.

Darren's comments about 'AGW religion' is not only offensive to those scientists who are researching this issue, but disguises the fact that it is he who is part of a movement that has more characteristics of a religion.

Hey Mark,quit attacking and show me some proof of agw........

For anybody interested here is a link with more details on iron fertilization of the oceans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_fertilization

Pretty impressive that just a ton of iron in equatorial waters can generate a carbonaceous biomass equivalent to one hundred full-grown redwoods within the two weeks.

So, maybe, just maybe, there is a cost effective means of controlling CO2 levels in the atmosphere.

Any skeptics wish to become part of the solution?

Come on guys, you can be positive if you try!

The Denial Machine has characteristics of a religion. Consider:

1) Rejection of the science that links humans with GW. This is not unlike evolution deniers who automatically reject science.

Not true. CO2's role in GW is a correlation at best and it only extends back a few hundred years. Beyond that the correlation breaks down. Evolution has hundreds of different examples (DNA, fossils, records of mass extinctions, etc) that support it. AGW has models and poor correlations to "support" it.

Try using the Scientific Method to prove CO2's role in GW and it fails. Try it with any of the world's religions and it does the same.

2) Believing that humans have no control over the climate, or even the world.

Not true. We are very aware the land usage alters climate. The Urban Heat Island effect is a good example. One thing that needs to be recognized is that climates are not global they are regional.

This is consistent with the religious view that a higher force controls everything, and ultimately, humans can't do anything about it, therefore we shouldn't bother.

Hahahaha :) AGW has definitely taken the place of God in AGW'ers eyes. AGW is responsible for everything from headaches to acidic oceans (what a joke). And you all defend your "profit", pun intended, Al Gore even though he has stated many and easily refuted statements. Religion.

Darren's comments about 'AGW religion' is not only offensive to those scientists who are researching this issue, but disguises the fact that it is he who is part of a movement that has more characteristics of a religion.

Awww, somebody get offended? Is Darren's "credibility" reduced because he offended someone :) Offense and credibility cannot stand up to the Scientific Method. Why don't y'all try it out?

Regards,

Steve

Hmmm...

Mark:

Well put and I can see the similarities in what you say.

However..I don't recall there being a concerted denial machine effort along the lines of the stories and fiction put forth by those who are concerned about GW. Remember a little diddie called "The Day After Tomorrow"? The purpose of these stories is to fill in the parables of the cause. Granted, very similar to the Christian Bible.

I find it intriguing though that you choose to comment on my post in lieu of the topic. Granted I got off the topic first but often I find that proponents of the AGW religion choose to "address" the skeptic in lieu of the real topic.

If scientists are offended, it really should not be at a skeptic as much as those who have taken their research and tried to turn a buck with it or worse, tried to instill unnecessary fear in those who do not understand it.

And thanks for thinking of my lettuce, am hoping to have enough for salads through the start of December. Yummy! and it saves the planet by not having to fly it in from outside the state right?

Mark:
Your said: The Denial Machine has characteristics of a religion.

An interesting characterization.
But I would submit the opposite is more likely accurate.
The AGW industry very closely parallels the Creation Science community in the following ways:
- Both began with the conclusion and then cherry picked data to support the hypothysis.
(or adjusts it to fit)
- Both believe absoultely in the dogma to the exclusion of all other explainations.
- Both accept unproven theories and opinions as facts.
- Both rely on mass ignorance to gain broad acceptance by simply repeating the mantra over and over again.
- Both revile anyone who disagrees as heretical to the point of character assination and often career sabotage.

Religeon is by definition a belief in somthing you can't prove but " Know " in your heart is true.
Sound familiar?

Geez...

Based on Andrew's post, maybe I should fertilize my lettuce with iron!

Interesting, I had heard of using iron in the garden but had not heard that it was so effective in generating biomass.

Tell you what Andrew, will head to the garden store on the way home and do my part for reducing CO2. POWER TO THE LETTUCE!

Nice post Natural GW Steve

More geo-engineering folks. More apocolyptic planetary bandaides to manufactured problems. I am as much a tree hugger as any green minded soul, however I do take issue with wanton disregard of nature and truth. How wonderfull is our living earth? Incredibly wonderfull! For example we know that animals and plants breath and these two orders of life have a gas exchange crittical for thier mutual survival. The molecules of chlorophyl and hemoglobin are essntially identical the difference is iron is the binding metal in red blood cells and magnesium is the binding metal in plant green blood cells so to speak. The planet is a living breathing thing and the soberest thing our world civilization can do is SLOW DOWN. We can have plenty of energy, the universe provides it, look up on any search engine "The Electric Universe Model" and you will get what I am saying. All war, industry and pollution is diliberately promoted by certain elite interests. Iron filings dumped into the oceans like any geo-engineering scheem will have its "unintended" side effects that will cause yet more problems. Do any of you actually go outside and watch the clouds? I have since I was very little gone out with farmers and other people knowledgable of the weather to "read" the clouds. Guess what folks , I can see plainly we have NO natural clouds anymore, at least not untampered with clouds. I see over NYC beautifull cirrus clouds drift in only to be Chemtrailed and "Cloud Forced" into grey matalic looking "cumulo artificialis pieceocrappus" clouds. The dailly assualt on the Cirrus Clouds is both alarming and the surface waters of North America show a dramatic increase in Aluminum Oxide and Barium Oxide as well as other unaturally occurring compounds...toxic compounds.This indicative of the weather modification programs causing fallout from artificial clouds. If we want a clean environment, if we want pure rains and healthy air...STOP CHEMTRAILING the cirrus clouds and minimise industrial pollution and make the governments of the world honest and responcible for bad governance. Iron filings in the oceans are a bad idea as is all these stupid and dangerous geo-engineering concepts and programs.ARHGGG......

george n:

Whoa, while I agree with the gist of your post, I gotta ask, chemtrailing of the clouds? No natural clouds? HUH? Were you up late last night watching sci fi? Come on now, be honest.

Darren, I wish I was up late watching the Sci-Fi channel, sadly, I am watching , rather, making field observations of weather with the naked eye and sometimes camera lens. I have made hundreds of photo's of all kinds of craft spraying cirrus clouds. Sadly, I challenge any readers of this post to go outside and observe cirrus clouds. Spend one hour a day for one month and then tell us your findings! What I am observing is frightfully alarming and I am very convinced that chemtrailing is global and a diberate poisoning of the natural cirrus clouds.

Amazing.

When I breed my goats I'm told I'm contributing to global warming and messing with nature. When I go out to cut wood in my woodlot I'm told I'm contributing to global warming and messing with nature. When I muck out the stables and spread manure on the pasture I'm told I'm contibuting at global warming and messing with nature.

However dumping iron dust into the sea isn't messing with nature?

george:

Um, crafts spraying the cirrus clouds? I kinda don't recall ever seeing that.

Being a certified geek, I like to look at clouds and really have never noticed any variation over the years.

OH...Geeee, I'm sorry those long white plumes behind the planes (and other tubelike things) are just "persistant contrails" and are perfectly normal, even though they turn on and off at will in a controlled manner...usually around cirrus clouds...Huh, I thought contrails were just mostly water vapour from the jet engines way up above 20 or 30 thousand feet nor so. Huh, I didn't know that Contrails could "stick" around and become cumulus cloud decks...I guess all the years of observing clouds I haven't learded a thing. Golly.

Darren, you are ignorant to the current problem that this planet is going through. You and others alike are the reason global warming has allowed to develop without just cause for fighting.

HEART, AMJED