According to Gore, Hansen, and many other of the world's leading climate authorities - the Arctic is headed for a huge meltdown after we pass a "tipping point" in the next few years.

The warm weather will then germinate the seeds, and Greenland and Arctic Norway will become the world's breadbasket. It only needs to warm up another forty or fifty degrees for this to happen, on top of the minus one degree "rise" we have seen since the 1930s.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id=431042500000&data_set=1&num_neighbors=1
http://www.summitcamp.org/summit

The seed bank is a cool idea but I woulda thought the reports that we just had a record COLD year would somehow rank higher in importance! That report has been out five days and not one word on here. I thought we were supposed to get "facts" on this site.

Reply: A record cold year Don? Where specifically are you alluding to?

Don's right. The reply to him if from Brett Anderson shows you didn't read my email with a web site attached with the information showing that over the last year the earth has cooled in average temparatures more so than any other year.

Reply: No, Don is wrong. We did not just have a record cold year. Those were his words. Based on several different temperature measurements, there indeed has been a significant drop in the global temperature anomaly over the past 12 months.

Been following this one for a couple of years now. I've some images of those Islands that can make me cold just looking at them. Talk about desolate. And there are still people that live up there. Considering that archeologists have found seeds from ancient Egypt that I do believe were able to germinate after 3,000 years , it would not suprise me a bit if these seeds were able to stay good for a lot longer. I like it !!!

This is a great idea, but not because of natural disasters or global warming. It's because we'll be safe if the right-wing's prophecy of a NUCLEAR WAR come true!!!!!!!!

LOL

As I remember this looks like the front of my dad's Edsel. What kind of waste is this.0F all the stupid Ideas I have ever seen.
This is as dumb as George Bush borrowing a trillion,from China. This is so impracticle it is like the Iraq War.Hey! BUSH.Start a war 2000 miles off target. This is as insane as paying four dollars for a gallon of gas, because George has mad the dollar worth less than a EURO!!!
Well,at least he allowed the banks to offer cheap loans,ask anyone whose house is under foreclosure.
Now tell me PATRICK,who did you vote for. Don't you think it's time for an African American President?

Here is an article about global cooling, that real science thinkers may enjoy!
KIPP
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071219/COMMENTARY/10575140

Is it glacier resistant?

Hi Kipp,

Yes, I think a John McCain/Condoleeza Rice ticket would be unbeatable. That would take away any racial, gender or sexual orientation advantage the Obama/Clinton ticket offered.

Hi Mark,

The vast majority of anti-nukes are on the left. One of the few points of agreement I have with them.

Hey Kipp:

Who are you to insult Norway AND impugn their environmental intentions? And then.... and then to imply the President of the U.S. is somehow responsible for the state of the economy when it's a widely held belief in economic circles that the President can actually have very little control. They either get the credit, or they get blaimed.

And how is the government responcible for "allowing" people to take out an adjustable rate mortgage for a house they can't afford in the first place? Are people not responcible AT ALL in your world.

And gas prices at $4. SO WHAT? You want conservation? That's what it's going to take. Why on Earth would anyone buy a car that gets 35 mpg if gas cost $2? WHY? We need light rail too, but that's gonna take $6 gas.

Ooh, ooh. And I just read (on fox news) that the new energy bill has a provision in it that prohibits the government from buying any fuel that has a total CO2 contribution greater than those produced from normal petroleum sources..... this will effectively preclude government purchases of ethanol, tar sands products and fuel from coal alternatives. Just another day in paradise eh Kipp?

As far as BO being African American? Well, as far as I'm concerned he's just another Kansas wanna be.

All the best

Aaron

Gosh, Brett. I don't know. Don said he was right, doesn't that make it so? Aren't you stifling the opposing viewpoint here in a sly attempt to further the cause of one world government and socialist rule?

Kip: I don't know if you have happened to have read this article:

The Sky is Falling - or Revising the Nine Times Rule

Bret...have you? No, I have not

It completely blew me away. Has anyone read anything contrary to it, criticizing it?

Tkx

I'm all for storing heritage seeds, but I do have three questions:

What does Kipp Alpert's posting say?

Wouldn't it be a fine idea if some of those seeds were planted and the crops harvested, so we could have, say, edible tomatoes?

And (maybe this should have counted as several questions) this facility is in Norway which I assume means it is in part of the Arctic ice that global warming is sure to destroy last year or this--how are the seeds to be protected against "...earthquakes, nuclear strikes and global warming..."

Brett: I am not familiar with your requirements on 'cut-and-paste'. Its possible this has already been discussed as I was not in the thread earlier, however the cut and paste is a response by a James Taylor to the below article and the subsequent response from PhonyClimate. If this goes beyond your rules, please delete the post. Thanks.

What if you held a conference, and no (real) scientists came?

James Taylor:
The anonymously authored Real Climate article above is a disappointing smear job � i.e., you have nothing to say substantively, so you attempt to smear your intellectual opponents. Many of the world�s leading climate scientists from some of the world�s most prestigious universities will be giving presentations. Rather than behaving like children and throwing mud at them, perhaps you might behave like adults and discuss the science. Of course, that will never happen because open and honest debate is what you fear most.

I never thought I would see the day when scientific debate and inquiry, conducted by some of the most credentialed scientists in the world, would be considered a bad thing. But that is what happens when people are afraid of the truth.

Al Gore in one day rakes in more honorarium money than all of our speakers combined. Nevertheless, we have offered to pay his usual honorarium to speak at our conference, but have not heard back from Mr. Gore. We have invited Real Climate�s Michael Mann to come and speak at our conference, but Mr. Mann also has failed to respond to our invitation.

Unlike Real Climate, we do not attempt to stifle scientific inquiry. Instead, we encourage it. We are equal opportunity investigators of science. As the Real Climate article above notes, we have invited many members of Real Climate to come and give presentations. It is odd that Real Climate is invited to discuss the science in a professional, scholarly environment, yet throws stones from afar, where they do not have to subject their claims to scientific scrutiny.

Perhaps Real Climate will abandon their fear of public discourse, and will reconsider their decision to decline our invitation to speak at the conference. After all, isn�t honest and open scientific discussion a good thing? Please send me an email at taylor@heartland.org and, as my prior emails indicate, I would be happy to add you to our conference lineup.

With warmest regards,

- James

[Response: The level of chutzpah in your comment is breathtaking. Our �substantive� additions to the scientific knowledge is well attested to by our publications in the peer reviewed literature and is subject to scientific scrutiny every day. I will even venture to make a prediction that the number of peer-reviewed papers on climate science we have collectively authored in the last 5 years will be substantially more than all of your speakers put together. Honest and open scientific discussion is greatly to be wished for, and in fact, happens all the time. I don�t recall ever bumping into you at a real conference (AGU/AMS/EGU), but should you ever go, you�ll see it how it works first hand. Your institute plays no role in that because your approach is the anti-thesis of scientific inquiry - your conclusions have been decided before you look at the evidence. When you decide to stop abusing the scientific process for political gain, then perhaps we can talk. - gavin]

My response: I can't make up the stuff the Hysterics manage to pull out of their hats, however, this 'Gavin' would rather hide behind his 'peer-reviewed' papers than have an intellectual debate on the subject.

Kipp,

You have me confused. You attack so-called sceptics and then produce opinion that supports the anti-AGW position. Which way do you lean? (Reply: I got the same impression. Brett.) Personally, I don't care about your politics and the continuous babble about Republicans and Democrats is terribly ethnocentric - not everyone on this blog is American and George W. Bush doesn't hold office in other countries.

Now to the subject at hand: If the Norwegians want to spend their money on this project, then let them go ahead. There are farms where people raise crops and livestock that is no longer mainstream to keep the gene pool going with original stock (think Tamworth pigs for example). I just wouldn't want a job on the island they've picked - and I speak from experience having visited above the Arctic Circle in Norway.

Nice try, Brett. You knew well I meant the temps for the past year being WELL below normal in this age of global warming. Reply: Don, How am I supposed to know that? My bad to use the term "record".
Just seems to me that is HUGE news and I only wondered why its not been covered here in place of a n article about a seed vault.

Reply: Yes, I would tend to agree, but in terms of overall long term climate it is just a speck. I want to see more data and a longer time scale before I jump to conclusions.

The US has a Gene Bank in Fort Collins called the National Center for Genetic Resource Preservation. I saw a show on it, think it was Modern Marvels. They also store animal genetics.

http://www.ars.usda.gov/main/site_main.htm?modecode=54020500

Mark,

The US started gene banking in the 1890's.

What prophecy are you speaking of? Are you simply implying there is a "right wing" prophecy for nuclear war or can you name who came up with it and when?

This article should be right up your alley :)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7529

Alarm Alarm!

They need a doomsday vault for a gardener to plant these seeds now!

it's like pulling teeth

"Reply: Based on several different temperature measurements, there indeed has been a significant drop in the global temperature anomaly over the past 12 months."

Brett, for people that read your blog for information, not a cat fight, can you please say what those numbers are?

Reply: I will do a post on it next week.

My ancestors were once known as 'the Berserkers' populating all of Europe with their offspring.
Nowadays they give Peace prizes and hoard seeds.
I am so embarrassed.

OK, glad others are confused by Kipp.

Steve:

Very interesting post. Quite telling and informative.

Gary:

ROTFLMAO

I too, am embarrased for you. I guess. Kinda seems like a good idea though. Try to think of it as protecting the seeds from danger. That's kinda good right?

Can this thing withstand an asteroid strike? Just wondering.

I still don't know what your position is Kipp -kinda confused-, just like many others here.

"Yes, I think a John McCain/Condoleeza Rice ticket would be unbeatable. That would take away any racial, gender or sexual orientation advantage the Obama/Clinton ticket offered."

Patrick, for the very first time, I agree with you. Obama's been playing the racial card, and I'm fed up with it.

This is an excellent idea and I would like to see more countries do the same.

Kipp-
Would you rather be paying the 6.00 dollars a gallon those in Britain are paying?

Regards, Elliot

AVIATOR:
Your allegiance to Science is inspiring. Being a blogger here, have you noticed the political bias on every single post that Patrick writes. And his followers as well. Or are you suddenly upset to see that there is more than one point of view on this blog. I can post sights that show the potential for Global cooling, and with the same intelligence answer back those rhetorical fiends that you might be so friendly with. I am not a right wing person, and being human, can be offended by others remarks. As for our European compatriot's would rather take my side on the issue regarding GEORGE W BUSH. They will be fine.But you did have the time to waste a whole paragraph on that.How Curios? Also the word is polycentric not ethnocentric. Here are two more sights that support Global cooling.
KIPP
http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2007/01/global-cooling.html
http://motls.blogspot.com/2007/01/peer-reviewed-global-cooling.html

Kipp,

You are completely incomprehensible. Your "reply" bore no resemblance to my original post in any way I could rationally grasp. Yes, I believe in science, that is why I find AGW to be more in the realm of fiction. As regards politics, I made it clear I don't care about Republicans or Democrats - or radical socialists like yourself - oh, yes, and you are the one who is clearly 'upset' that your views are not worshipped by the terrible sceptics. I don't know where you got the Global Cooling statements from, but I to tend to fear that scenario far more than minor warming. So you are offended by others remarks? Remarkable, since all I asked was what side you leaned towards. You are far more offensive. Now get back to the topic or do us all a favour and find somewhere else.

Kipp:

HUH?

Again, just a futile attempt by man to make himself think he is in control of what happens. I hate to tell those of you who drink from the well of humanism, but when the show will be over, when the creator wants it to be.

We should take care of what is given to us, but oil is the what makes the world go round and always will be in our lifetime. Open up Anwar and drill now! The sooner we realize the necessity of oil, the better of we will be.