And with all of that you will only be paying 1000 dollars a month for your electric bill. I think Al is smoking some of his kids stash.

I think Gore is a complete scam artist. A price on carbon at home, what is this? I am guessing people will be allowed a limit set by the government on their gas and electric bill and anything over this limit will be taxed. So not to be taxed to death people will freeze in the winter and sweat in the summer. These people are nothing but a bunch of thieves, plain and simple. Won't more electricty be used to power all of these battery cars? Won't more coal be burned to provide the electricty for these cars?How many times a week will we get to plug our cars in, at what cost, how many miles can we drive before we get hit with an additional tax? I want to know how much money Al Gore stands to make from his 5 part plan? Al Gore, please just go to your mansion and stay there. You know the one that uses 10 to 15 times more electricty than the average home us pions live in.

STOP GOREBUL WARNING

Since renewables cannot possibly generate enough power to replace coal (and they know it), the real agenda is to ration power in the future and transform the U.S. into something we normal people will hate.

When a majority of Americans come to their senses and realize where this is going, the Gore/green energy agneda (along with N. Pelosi) will be given the "bum's rush" out the door. This energy agenda will be the primary reason Congress will return to a conservative majority in 2010.

The fact is, most people are just trying to keep their own lives in order and make ends meet and don't care about CO2 and climate change.

I think that Gore is naively driven by his agenda.

Additionally, he has NO idea how completely unrealistic his plan is. I think this is because he has surrounded himself with like minded people who have grand ideas with zero practical world experience.

On another note, exactly where are these "millions" of jobs we keep hearing about in this "alternative energy" policy put forth by Obama, Gore and even the defeated McCain? Seems like it is just a ploy to get all of us to think "Wow, that's great, let's make electricity from algae or the sun and get everybody working".

Seriously, whenever I see or read anything about alternative energy sources, I see a big alternative energy complex with maybe 1 or 2 people running around. Doesn't seem like there would be enough sites to employ that many people and more exactly, lets face it, a stockbroker probably would not want to be retrained to fix solar panels.

So, maybe the jobs are in the construction of the energy farms? Ok, that's temporary at best since they like to use modular construction. Maybe it is in the development of the panels? I have seen many documentaries on solar panel construction and there seems to be a dearth of humans in the plant as much of it is automated.

And, I realize that small solar cells are not the same as the big ones, but the little ones I saw at the store the othr day were made in China. Betcha the big ones would be too in the end.

Don't know, seems like just another pie in the sky promise that will be busted pretty quick. Wonder if anyone will remember in 4 years?

I love his vision of a massive network of power lines covering the rural areas of the country, losing 2/3 of their electricity before they reach their destination.

His technical brilliance is only outdone by his environmental vision.

So basically he wants the government to take over and run the 10 year plan, nationalize the key players. Yes, yes, I know, the government has done such a fantastic job in the past with the economy, financing institutions, spending, etc.

So somehow, we will be able to overcome all technical issues associated with solar and wind within 10 years, even though those in the know say at most we would be able to generate less than 50% of our energy requirements from solar and wind even 15 years out, if all the stars are lined up. I have also been reading that the electric power grid infrastructure has to be built up/retrofitted to handle the increased power from solar and wind because it can't do it now. Or is the new improved grid only going to be for solar, wind, and geothermal? How is this going to be completed in 10 years? The government can't even agree who to give the $700 billion bailout funds to.

What about natural gas (a fossil fuel-sorry Boone Pickens) or nuclear? The United States has vast resources of natural gas available for extraction. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates that there are 1,532.82 Trillion cubic feet (Tcf) of technically recoverable natural gas resources in the United States. Just forget about it?

According to the EIA, the top 5 importers of petroleum and crude oil which account for about 65% of all oil imports are (starting with the largest): Canada; Saudi Arabia; Mexico; Venezuela; Nigeria. So the US is going to be the only ones not using oil in 10 years. Do you think Canada and Mexico will sell their oil to someone else?

Trucks and heavy equipment can't run on electricity-not enough power, they need at least some kind of natural gas for fuel. And we are going to need heavy equipment to build the infrastructure.

If we no longer can use oil in 10 years, will we be forced by the government to get rid of all our current gas cars and buy only the electric/hybrid cars? Who gets all our old cars? I guess the countries that buy the oil from Canada and Mexico.

Anybody that knows anything about energy and our future energy needs understands how unrealistic these goals are. Gore is living in a fantasy world. Worlwide, there will be at least 500 new coal plants built with an average life span of 50 years within the next 10 years.

Even the Energy Information Administration predicts that by 2030 coal will be providing an even greater percentage of our total energy needs than it does today.

On this 30th Anniversary of Jonestown Gore and his followers need to understand their kool-aid solutions will not work in the real world.

Even if the government had several extra trillion dollars, it wouldn�t work.

Wind and solar technology right now are only supplemental sources for electricity, not primary�

Texas: �The wind blows hardest before the sun comes up, when people aren't using much power. It tends to die down during the afternoon � especially in the summer � just when people demand more juice. � http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/DN-wind_06bus.ART0.State.Edition1.4e033eb.html

Plug-in-hybrid cars??? We are not even close to cost efficient systems�need quantum leap in battery technology.

On a related note, had you seen this:

Mini Nuclear Power Plants Could Power 20,000 Homes
http://www.physorg.com/news145561984.html

There are many available "clean" energy alternatives. The federal government should provide DEEP tax incentives directly to businesses and individuals to use them. There is absolutely no reason for the government to give money to producers of alternative energy or take (more) money from current energy producers.

As to AGW I am a skeptic, as to the "Gore" plan, put me in the denialist category it ever gets any serious consideration. While his plan as a total unit, along with certain points, should be rejected, elements of it make good sense. Specific comments:

1. Incentives for Renewable�s - Sure, lets do it for some incremental growth in power generation, but why did he leave out nuclear? He devoted an entire paragraph on why clean coal is unproven, yet fails to address the simple fact that enormous amounts of base load power is needed from coal or nuclear generation.

2. Construction of a national smart grid - So we abandon our existing structures and power plants to build a whole new system? His cost estimate is no doubt a pipe dream, and he doesn't even factor in the "not in my backyard syndrome" will require ten years of court time before any of this even can get started.

3. Convert to plug-in-hybrids - Of course, by definition there still is oil usage in hybrids, so much for 100% carbon free. Having said that, I certainly back moving to hybrid cars.

4. Retrofit buildings with better insulation and energy efficient windows and lighting - We have been doing this for years, certainly not a new idea, but this should be a constant priority.

5. Put a price on carbon at home - Of course, we cannot forget about taxes. Why not suggest that 50% of all taxpayers pay no carbon taxes but instead get a carbon tax refund, that 45% of taxpayers will first get an imposed carbon tax, but then be eligible for a carbon tax mail in rebate, and that the top 5% of income earners and, of course, corporations (assuming there are any left), will pay the vast majority of all carbon taxes.....

Al Gore and his plan are laughable. First, he is NOT a scientist and he has zero credibility. His doom and gloom documentary is full of falsehoods and lies.

He is making millions of dollars on his global warming scam. I'll start driving an electric car as soon as Gore gives up his limos, SUVs, and yachts. LOL

No. 4 is the only practical step on the list.

What about the only real, practical solution to power America without coal or natural gas? It's called NUCLEAR. Why does Gore oppose nuclear power generation - because he couldn't rake in millions of dollars fleecing people in his carbon trading scheme!

I think that it is a good idea to go carbon-free, generally speaking, but I think that this whole human-induced global warming thing is a sham. It is sad that to have to scare people with the idea that we're all going to boil is a stimulus to change. How about keeping it simple, and taking care of our home planet? Watch Wall-E to see what we shouldn't become... I know it sounds silly, but if you watch it, you'll see what I mean...

Seraphim

Why is this our responsibility to save the world in the first place.

China, Russia, India and approx 160 other countries
not only produce more CO2 than we do
they are not going to do one thing about it

Even if we stopped producing any CO2 at all
No one would even notice the difference

Don't have a problem with any of that with a few conditions.

1.) It has to be technically possible without lowering our standard of living.

2.) The government doesn't force the issue by artificially creating the market for it to happen. (Ungodly tax increases on one side and disproportionate incentives on the other.

3.) They don't scare the heck out of people in an effort to push the agenda.

If it is the right thing to do ( and it might be ) then it will happen naturally when the time is right.

That's just wonderful

What about all the jobs they are eliminating?
I guess they think all the people that would loose their jobs
can just be retrained to do jobs
that they are not qualified for

Or just up everyone taxes that are working
to support all the people that are out of jobs

"creating millions of new jobs that cannot be outsourced."

Let's move all the people that work in coal on the East coast
to windmill farms on the West coast
That's a great plan.

I would like to see low-interest loans and grants for homeowners to convert their roofs to solar-electric grids and supply most if not all of their electrical needs. Not enough is being done to wean us off of an all-inclusive gridwork that is subject to breakdown and attack. Decentralize the powergrids and eliminate dependence upon central power hubs. Yes, wind power is necessary also to supply renewable energy and we ought to be busy about constructing the infrastructure needed to move in this direction.

Yes indeed. And now that the democrats have taken over this free country, card blanche will be given for them to run wild and free with their imposing their agenda on an otherwise free people. And just so the union coal miners (who voted themselves right out of a job) and independent free thinkers out there (who voted for "putting that price on carbon at home" a/k/a. TAX TAX TAX TAX) who voted for Mr. Obama know, my "Don't blame me. I voted for McCain" bumper sticker is on order.

Save the planet from hot air. MUZZLE AL GORE!!!!

p.s. 30 degrees F and snow flurries on 11/18/08 at 12:54 p.m. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GLO-BULL WARMING!!!!!!

What do I think of Gore's plan? It is a way for Gore to add another 100 million or so to his bank account. The man is nothing but a promoter of scams to increase his personal wealth and he is using his access to the media and his alleged Nobel credibility to do it. With his financial stake in GE and carbon trading, he intends to get into the Forbes Top Ten list. I don't trust a word he says.

The plan is worthy of consideration solely for economic reasons. We need a massive domestic jobs program and these activities would create many jobs.

Lets hope the Chinese don't steal it.

Global Temperature Record
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/info/warming/

Geothermal is a great idea however it does have some drawbacks that the enviro freaks will not like. Not much incentive in either wind or solar if the Government stops subsidizing them and again the enviro freaks like neither. I?m fine with a smart grid, our current grid is old and in bad need of fixing. Cant change the auto industry until the infrastructure can support the massive increase in electrical power that will be needed and batteries will have to improve greatly before rural America will even think of buying in. Retrofit your hearts out. The only thing that I can imagine he means by putting a price on carbon at home is a carbon tax on individual energy usage. Of course all of these ideas coast a massive amount of money, and with the loss of hundreds of billions of dollars from taxes on the oil industry, that will no longer be there, the Government will have to get it from somewhere. The prices of goods and services should not go up too much, and your standard of living should not fall too much, and will accomplish absolutely nothing but we can then say we tried.

This is the biggest scam ever.This is just one more way to rape the tax payers. Here Gore lives in this hugh mansion using more power than half the population of Tennessee.You lib's need to get a life. With Passion James C. Conner

The gore plan is very poorly thought out. providing reliable power as opposed to intermittent electricity, from renewable eneregy systems turns out to be two to three times as expensive as building new nuclear plants. What good are the so called "green jobs" if no one can afford the electricity. Building are already more energy efficient than they were a generation ago. It is a myth that energy efficiency is a low cost substitution for electrical generating capacity.

This is just a repeat of Gore's last plan to DEpower America.

His ideas are very bold indeed. We all accept these are the right methods that we should be slowly working towards anyway. However the time in which he states we should achieve this is rather, optimistic. It's nearly impossible to put in place such drastic changes in a country so large and diverse as the United States. Whether I agree with his views on global warming or not, those incentives are generally very good to work on not only for the benefit of the nation, but personally as well.

Mr. Gore has lost touch with reality! His extreme views deprive him of credibility.

I think he needs to see a doctor!

What do I think? I know he is a scam artist with his hand deeply in carbon credits and the like. He has no formal science training and I am both amused and horrified by his ignornance in basic science and his ability to fool the masses with complete drivel.
His plans show a complete lack of reality.(Geothermal in the US replacing coal fired plants??? Where? The science is not there to support that claim. Then the greenies will stop the construction of any size plant for at least 10 years. LOL this is pure political nonsense aimed at the young, stupid, or naive.) The infrastructure alone will take forever and unless you want to destroy entire local ecosystems they are unworkable. However, he will be made a richer man thanks to the fools who will blindly follow this insanity.

Anybody want to buy pieces of the True Cross? oh I am sorry wrong century. Does anybody want to buy carbon credits to save the world? Yeah that's his story and he is sticking to it.

Everyone who is reading this blog is touching oil based products. In fact, the oil needed to run a completely electric car is still more than what you would save on gas in ten years. People really need to realize computers cannot be manufactured without the need for plastic. Plastic can be produced from coal. Hmmm? What we need is a way to transmute Co2 into pure C and O.

This November has been phenomenally warm thus far. However, the first day we get some cold weather, the Deniers come out of the woodwork posting about their backyard weather, as seen all over this thread.

Check out the November temperature departures across the country. Yes, it will change now that we're in a colder regime, but it's always interesting to note the absence of Deniers posting here when the weather is warm.

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/tanal/montoday/mon2dayf.gif

I can't really blame the Deniers, as science definitely isn't their forte.

Andrew:
We need a new deal approach towards alternate energy yesterday. The specifics have not been elucidated yet. Global warming is a dangerous thing. People make up their own science about this reality. I have read several explanations here, about global warming, which are fallacious. The sun comes through the clouds and reaches the Earth. The long IR that used to be reflected out is absorbed by CO2. These greenhouse gases are keeping the heat in and more. The CO2 that is absorbed on the Earth goes where; to carbon sinks in the biosphere and the oceans. The oceans can only take in a specific amount of CO2, so it releases more to be carried back to the atmosphere by water vapor. Then you have to look at our biosphere. With urbanization and deforestation, less CO2 can reside there. So that too will rise up and become more prevalent.
Many of the IPCC long term predictions are questionable. As far as short term predictions some Scientists believe they are too conservative.
With China's burgeoning middle class of car drivers, and as the need for more energy increases
due to overpopulation, CO2 will increase exponentially. We will start to notice the beginning of Global Warming, first on low lying islands in the South Pacific, and no Ice in the Arctic in five years, in the summer. They say that the Arctic is now in a death spiral, and it will take another ice age to grow it back. That now the absorption of the IR, and the loss of reflectivity, will be our first experiment with feedback mechanisms. There is no answer but to ween ourselves off of fossil fuels. Since water vapor, the great absorber will take any heat from the CO2 in the atmosphere, then bring it back to Earth, water vapor is the largest greenhouse gas. CO2 is the problem. You can think about the end of the Jurrasic period, next time you need to fill up your tank. If we can put a hole in the ozone layer, we can easily warm the Earth.
KIPP

Do all of Al Gore's proposed actions, only faster.
The real cost of housing is the energy wasted throughout its lifetime
LEED Green built energy bermed solar homes need to be built in sustainable communities with local gardens and local energy production. The housing industry is building homes based on 200 -300 year old ideas. US citizens need less stuff and smaller homes. These will consume and was less energy if no being zero net energy homes. As always, its is pay me now or pay me later - for energy savings paying more now, for a zero energy home will leave a living planet for humans later, and we will pay less later to clean the environment.

How about a goal of solar collectors on every roof (including car roofs) in the country (weather permitting).

Doing this would provide a huge amount of new jobs and there wouldn't be a transmission problem.

The cost would be enormous. But through a mixture of credits, subsidies and grants paid for by excess electrical use taxes, tax on coal and tax on oil, it can be done.

It's time we called a spade a spade, Brett..Plain and simple...And this country is headed for big trouble....and I am freezing my catalopes off and it's not even winter. They care only about their power, not the environment

Oiz

Here is one for you Brett. Canucks and the rest of the world can go well, you know. Anyway, I didnt see anyone but Gore creating a crisis. The REAL problem is that someone has to go. There are going to be 7 billion little carbon footprints out there in '12 and well no one is volunteering.

Bird flu, TB, etc are all waiting in the wings (pun intended) and well frankly Scarlett if that SOB is so concerned about the environment then he shouldnt have bought that 100 foot long house boat and then put it on the lake for everyone to see. He was very quick to point out it runs on bio diesel. Yeah, right 6.2 Detroit Diesels in it. Very cost effective and eco friendly.

The others have already started into this Cap and Trade crap and its going to be the downfall of the US. Plain, simple and complete. Who reaps the benefits? Certainly not the average taxpayer who is going to have to pay, pay, pay for all of it. His electrical windmill idea is noble, or is NOBEL . Didja know he is on the board of Occidental Petroleum?

Running wires 1000 miles to get to our "energy starved cities" means that we wont see it in our life times because the damned EPA regulations that have goat roped our economy since the 80's ensure that this power goes no where. Think not? We had an ice storm in the South about 11 years ago. The 660 KVA lines dropped into a swamp that had 30,000 migratory geese in it. It kilt them all. The EPA demanded that Mississippi suffer for SIX MONTHS while the Entergy people strung line 60 miles around the swamp. Right of ways, environmental impacts etc all ensure that this aint going to happen.

Then who is going to pay for it? The seniors are just about tapped out now. The young ones are going to have to support 12 old butts in just 5 short years 1 to 12 ratio. Wonder how they plan to pay for all of this stuff that AL GORE comes up with. Tell you what, get Michael Moore the man of the people to divest his investment in all of the oil companies that he has stocks in and I'll worry about this more.

As for the rest... Simple cost alone ensures that the greening of America will not happen. No one is going to be able to pay for it.

Because the sun is dynamic our climate is cyclic. Al Gore, Dr. James Hansen and Dr. Rajendra Pachauri lack credibility. Please, don't contribute to this lunacy.

Its too bad- i mean good, that Obama also thinks a similar plan is needed.

Its about time that people with the proper respect for science are in a position to try to address the problems we face environmentally.

Global Temperature Record
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/info/warming/

Good plan. If drastic measures are not taken soon, Gore will not be able to take credit for global cooling.

Quite frankly, from what I have heard out of the mouth of Al Gore, I wouldn't put any faith in anything he came up with. The internet, indeed...........does he think we are all stupid?

My personal opinion is that Global Warming as it has been presented is a scam. However, that does not preclude me from also thinking that his abitious plan to move off carbon-based energy sources is a good idea. 10 years to accomplish all that he laid out may not be long enough, but it would certainly be a worthwhile start. There is an end to oil and coal, that cannot be refuted. As these energy sources start to dwindle, the prices and market volatilities will go up and armed conflict to gian control over those resources will likely escalate. If we move to the forefront of non-carbon energy solutions for the US and the world, not only will we be taking pre-emptive steps to improve our own security, but we can help prevent worldwide resource wars and stablize geopolitical tensions based on energy supplies. I think Mr. Gore is full of more hot air than a balloon, but his idea has some merit, even if GW is total bunk.

Kipp Alpert: I think Al Gore's plan makes a lot of sense. We need a national effort to save energy
and create millions of jobs. Like T.Boone Pickens, even conservatives are beginning to see the light.
We are to dependent on foreign oil, and it is running out! Thomas Friedman just wrote a book,"Hot Flat and Crowded" which talks about our need to be green. He said on a talk show that you don't have to be a girly man, or a peacenik to want to save the planet and her ecosystems. We only have one planet and Global Warming is real.
As Brookline Tom noted, the same thing happened when cigarettes were found to promote cancer. A lot of inter-fighting went on, only to find out people were objecting to the truth. If not Global Warming, deforestation, and the abuse to our oceans by acidification is bad for our ecosystems, and therefore bad for us as a species.
Overpopulation will put such a burden on the environment, that we should lead not lag, on environmental issues. We are behind many industrialized countries on alternate energies, and we should be the leader in this burgeoning economy. KIPP

The general tone of all of these comments is what I would expect from members of a political movement whose boldest appeal to citizen action to create change came from a president who urged Americans to "take your family to Disneyworld."

This is absolutely nothing new.

Ausra http://www.ausra.com/ has recently opened their first factory to produce reflectors for their first solar thermal power station. They appear to have all the funding required from none other than Sun Computers. There are seven other companies competing for solar systems.

I don't know about the US but here in Australia we already have a national grid.

By law you can't build a house without it being adequately insulated.

We just don't need Gore's fancy trading scheme for carbon.

If one accepts that manmade CO2 is not responsible for alleged GW, then anything that promotes economy of energy is good, while anything that makes energy more costly is not. The most negative aspect of this debate or discussion if we can call it that, is that it seldom advances the human condition when well intentioned actions are forced on others for reasons that are eventually proved to be baseless. When you have to "rig" the tax system to force consequences that economy does not support you are not moving humanity forward. Rick

Hmmm, I seem to detect a certain air of skepticism in the majority of these comments. The denialists should be ashamed of yourself for not prostrating yourselves before the sainted nobel prize winning Gore. Haven't you seen his movie? Don't you realize he predicted - not just a 20 foot rise in sea level, no, but 200 feet as reported by Meredith Viera on network TV Sunday night!! You are obviously all paid off by the evil oil and coal companies. Shame on you!!

Well I see it's unanimus we are all behind Al Gores plan !
I have a geothermal furnace in my house , it's 16 years old and works great ! And my electric bill is very reasonable , and we have no gas in the house .
I think they should try to have every new house fitted with geo , and combine that with solar on the roof . !

Personally I don't think Al Gore is a greedy guy .
I think the wold would look very different if he ended up in the whitehouse in 2001 .

The markets are at a 5 year low today , and it looks like many of our banks , and our car companies may not last until Bush leaves office .

Yes We Can !

Oh, and another thing:

I don't think any of us would squawk if the new energy agenda included nuclear as a replacement for coal - it is vigorous enough, reliable, and almost as cheap. AND NO CO2!!!NONE!!!

And you can still continue to offer Federal incentives (not mandates) for renewables and allow them to take their reasonable place in energy production as their respective technologies mature.

If you compare nuclear to renewables, nuclear wins big time on every point. Oh, and the storage of nuclear waste is only a political problem, not a technical one.

Sun cycle vs co2, played at planet earth.
Recap: Sun wins in a blowout.

There has been past matchups and co2 never ever has become a mjor influence in warming. During the ordovician period extremely high co2, yet we had an ice age. Current warming spells starts 18,000 years ago and we were not here, so it was not due to man made co2. Sun puts out less energy we cool, more energy we warm. C02 does not correspond to warming in past history, why now. Well no one has ever stood the chance of becoming a billionaire from it before, actually I doubt ever before one could make money from it. I do have a question what causes a huge drop in co2, it has happened before.

Oiznop, down here in Garrett County Md we recieved almost 10" of snow since Sunday and down towards Snowshoe West Virginia they recieved nearly 2 feet and I heared a month ago on WTAE that in the future we have not have any ski resorts around due to global warming. Great selling point for going green, truth behind it..NO!

Gore is a technical incompetent when it comes to climate, but very clever in applying lessons he learned in theology school to create a religious movement that is not falsifiable.

The power grid can run using renewables, as long as certain limits are observed. All wind, solar, tidal, ocean current are intermittent sources that must be supported by either conventional sources or energy storage systems. Either way, the cost goes up. As an example, based on about 5 years of operatin experience, Ercot can schedule next-day wind energy at a derating of 8% of nameplate rating. That is, a 3 MW wind turbine can be counted on to produce about 0.24MW of power tomorrow.

You need to move wind and solar from optimum generation sites to load centers along the coasts. This requires several thousand (!) 500kv transmission lines with lengths of at least 1000 miles, at $2M/mile for overhead, and $6M/mile or more for underground, which Gore recently proposed. Add to this the need for DC converter stations at either end of each line to avoid power instability problems caused by such long lines, and you wind up with a price tag of more than $10 Trillion, not including the cost of the renewable generation assets and the stranded costs of existing fossil fuel generation assets. Spreading this over 50 years is a huge challenge. Crushing it into 10 years is specious drivel.

The largest coal deposits in the US are in Wyoming. Ask yourself why we didn't build several hundred power plants in Wyoming right next to the coal source, and criss-cross the country with transmission lines. It is wildly more expensive and less efficient than placing power plants near load centers.

Mark wrote: "I can't really blame the Deniers, as science definitely isn't their forte."

I think I remember from another post, Mark, that you described your forte as economics. Now it's science as well? Wow. What kind? Social science?

I'd also note that the British courts pretty much determined that science isn't Gore's forte either. BTW, he's another soft scientist with a degree in government (as well as being a drop out from seminary school and law school).

Are there two Ricks posting? Anyway I agree with Rick of 3:30pm.

Rick of 5:09pm: Can't argue with you that the world would be different if Gore had won in 2000. Just don't think that it would be better. It's hard not to be suspicious of Gore as he didn't regulate his own carbon footprint until forced to do so by public outcry. Now he buys his carbon offsets from his own company and is now advocating that the rest of the country do the same. Altruism just oozes from him, doesn't it? Or is that elitism?

Pretty certain that the market has gone down the majority of the days since Obama was elected, with a huge drop the day after the election. It's a heck of a vote of confidence. Don't think that Bush is responsible for the mess in Detroit -- he's got a lot of things to answer for but higher labor costs and lower productivity for American car manufacturers than the competition ain't one of them.

Al Gore is far beyond a "technical impotent". Al Gore's way into politics way paid by destroying Tennessee's environment. [google Al Gore sr. strip mining contracts to learn more] He was a crusader for "Christian morals and values" while in state politics and his early years in Washington D.C. Remember Gore vs. the 2 live crew? Gore jr. never did or tried to do anything to repair the environmental damage done by those lining his pockets. Now Gore claims to be crusading for the environment. That seems to somewhat ironic since Gore flies everywhere using inefficient corporate jets, not to mention Gore's house in Brentwood, TN uses more power than most neighborhoods. Maybe Gore should do as he says...

Reply: Gore has made his house much more energy efficient and now uses solar panels.

The general tone of all of these comments is what I would expect from members of a political movement whose boldest appeal to citizen action to create change came from a president who urged Americans to "take your family to Disneyworld."

REPLY: And the general tone coming from you GSN, is what I would expect from the typical tree hugging liberal who's boldest appeal is to take money from people who earn it and give it to people who don't. Thus preventing them from taking their family to Disneyworld. All in the interest of creating that change!

America Held Hostage. Beginning January 20, 2009!!!!

I can't really blame the Deniers, as science definitely isn't their forte.

REPLY: Same old line of gorg from you, right Mark? Tell us, what is your forte??? Is it science? Or is it towing the Glo-BULL Warming line, via the "unbiased" media? And what's Barack Obama's forte? Last I looked it was community organizing, NOT SCIENCE. And what's Al Gore's forte? Last I looked it was slinging BS. NOT SCIENCE!!!. Do tell. Or are just going to ignore my challenge like you and most liberals on this board do? Please Splain. What is your forte and the forte of your heros, Mark. I am all ears.

American Held Hostage. Starting January 20, 2009!!!!

Down here in Garrett County Md we recieved almost 10" of snow since Sunday and down towards Snowshoe West Virginia they recieved nearly 2 feet and I heared a month ago on WTAE that in the future we have not have any ski resorts around due to global warming. Great selling point for going green, truth behind it..NO!

REPLY: WTAE-TV is on the bandwagon, Darren. They are the typical media fearmonger fools that most of the "unbiased" media is around the country. Anything to fill air time and create news, even if it's fiction. KDKA Radio is no different. They have that Shelly Duffy doing the "Go Green" Report in the mornings. She comes on my radio, my radio goes OFF! And not only because of the "Going Green" report, but because I find her a very annoying person to listen to on the radio. (Sorry Brett, I know you may be friends with some of these people, but there are just a few out there that I can't take!).

American Held Hostage. Beginning January 20, 2009!!!!!

"Gore has made his house much more energy efficient and now uses solar panels."

Not according to his power bill the year following the greening of his sprawling mansion. As with many other politicians and movie stars playing this stupid AGW game, there is lots of blathering but only token gestures to avoid absolute and complete hypocrisy.

Mark B,

Yes, I do think I know more about economics than most who post here, especially right-wingers who, in their one-dimensional view of economics, think the solution to all of life's problems is to cut taxes.

Unfortunately, any comments I Make about economics gets deleted around here, even in a thread such as this one which should be open for some economic/political discussion.

"I think Al Gore's plan makes a lot of sense. We need a national effort to save energy
and create millions of jobs. Like T.Boone Pickens, even conservatives are beginning to see the light.We are to dependent on foreign oil, and it is running out!"

Energy independence and energy conservation are 2 seperate issues, and cannot be melded together into one grand plan. Energy independence simply stipulates that we should produce more energy here at home -and fossil fuels are in large part the answer. Alternative energy is anything but fossil fuels. To date, all alternatives are heavily subsidized by our federal goverment (enthanol being the most obvious), and none cannot survive without either goverment mandates or goverment money. T. Boone Pickens wants huge sums of money to subsidize his dream of thousands of wind farms dotting the Great Plains.

At war with both (but not necessairily obvious) are the Greens who are fighting tooth and nail both fossil fuels and alternatives. The Greens have petitioned the federal courts in serveral districts to order temporary restraining orders that prohibit the building of new transmission lines. With these lines there is no way the wind farms can get thier electricity into the national grid. Wind power to date can only produce 5% of our electricity needs. We would need almost new windmills to double that, and as Texans found out last winter, it always nice to have oil generated plants to pick up the slack when the winds fail to come.

As far as peak oil is concerned, I have seen nothing in the price of oil to indicate we are running out. If July through November oil prices are an indicator, we currently have a surplus. I'd hate to be that speculator in June who bought December crude futures at $180/barrel. An OPEC minister said this week that despite 2 large cuts in production, oil will likely fall to $40/barrel before it bounces back.

Of course we could be like the EU nations. They pay $10/gallon, of which $8/gallon are taxes.

BTW, part of the bail out plan Congress is implementing will require GM/Ford to double and even triple the number of electric vehicles it now produces. At $15000 a pop, the ROI on these vehicles will be 10-12 years. In 2012, there will be hundreds of thousands of electric vehicles sitting in the lots no one will buy.

"Gore has made his house much more energy efficient and now uses solar panels."

Al's energy consumption went up 10% the year following the embarrasing revelation of the gross energy consumption on his Tennessee mansion. The guy is as big a Phony as his father was. Yeh, do what Al wants and watch him get richer and most of the rest of us get poorer.

The amount of energy saved by using those solar panels is a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of energy wasted on his lear jet. Gore only installed the solar panels when he came under scrutiny because of his failure to act on what he says. I can't find any excuse for Gore's do as I say, not as I do attitude. I also (being from Tennessee) know full well that everything Gore does is driven by a political agenda.

As a carbon based lifeform...I reject excluding carbon based energy.

Item 1: Where's nuclear energy? it probably has the smallest environmental footprint of any of the technologies. Its a good idea to encourage the other alternative technologies but it will take many years before they are able to replace the entire energy production.

Item 2: A smart grid has been needed for years. However, the additional demand from trying to run cars on electricity will be huge. There needs to be more of a focus on developing small local electrical generation (inexpensive solar panels etc.) that can be installed within the cities so that there is less demand for transporting energy long distances which is very inefficient. City dwellers need to get used to the concept that more power will be generated near them.

Item 3: This makes sense. I can't see the current US auto industry management having enough imagination for this unless they plug in their Escalades.

Item 4: Conservation is generally the most efficient way to reduce energy use.

Item 5: Violent disagreement. We need to put a tax on gasoline that will be rebated on a per capita basis through income tax credits so that we reduce reliance on imported oil which is a critical national security issue. I haven't seen anything resembling proof that we need to eliminate coal at this point. We can increase clean air (non-CO2 issues) requirements so that electricity becomes more expensive over time to encourage conservation. In the early stages, this would be self defeating because it would not maximimize the effort to reduce oil consumption.

Andrew; Al Gore is not responsible for his Dad's mistakes. His only house now is energy efficient. Al Gore has always been an environmentalist with his wife Tipper. He was the first in congress who really took a realistic look at climate change. He introduced Hansen to congress thereby warning Americans of an impending crisis, which as it turns out is real. By his very personal crusade he at least made people more aware of the importance of the environment. That alone is more than I can say for most of us. KIPP

REVOLUTION!

Oiznop (the Knuckle Dragger)wrote:

"And the general tone coming from you GSN, is what I would expect from the typical tree hugging liberal who's boldest appeal is to take money from people who earn it and give it to people who don't. Thus preventing them from taking their family to Disneyworld. All in the interest of creating that change!"

Well, if your side says one thing, and mine says another, and those things are apparently diametrically opposed and thus will it ever be, it's really too bad for you that your side lost the election, isn't it?

This plan looks good for many reasons not just for tackling climate change.

Obama will probably implement much of it.

And the temp just keeps going up...
Global Temperature Record
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/info/warming/

Jim | November 20, 2008 2:04 PM --- But you are not a fossil carbon based life form.

Are you? :-)

Algore is a lucky loser who was born of rich parents and can do or say the most idiotic things and be listened to. I believe he was on the inside of the Y2K scare/scam and wants his own scare/scam with global warming.

I agree that Gore jr. cant be held responsible for his fathers corruption. But I also understand that the money paid for his mansion and political career came from illegal strip mining contracts. If i got rich from my father destroying the environment, would flying around on a lear jet telling everybody to end their way of life make it right? I say no, especially when none of the Gores made any attempt to clean up the mess they made. AS a Tennessean, I see the damage they did every day. This is the very reason why Gore didn't carry Tennessee in the 2000 election!

Mr. David Benson:
Sir! Surely you are not questioning the age or pedigree of my carbon atoms...every single piece of matter of my being is at least as old as the Big Bang and I'll not have my carbon credentials minimized by some FOSSIL!!!

Sincerely,

Jim (Who in some ways...pre-dates the Big Bang)

First , he should stop flying in his own jet. The initiatives should start from the people who speak a lot about global warming.
People who does real work dont speak, they act!

Well, if your side says one thing, and mine says another, and those things are apparently diametrically opposed and thus will it ever be, it's really too bad for you that your side lost the election, isn't it?

REPLY: Your gonna get what what you deserve, GSN. And sadly, on account of you and others who voted the way they did, a lot of people are going to get hurt, even more so than they are now. But that's OK, it was time for "CHANGE!!!!" YES WE CAN YES WE CAN YES WE CAN!!!!!!

America Held Hostage. Beginning January 20, 2009!!!!!

Gore just had to have something to latch onto after his loss in 2000 election. There is no such thing as global warming other than the normal periods we have. If I remember right in the 1970's all the smart scientists were scrambling to find a way to stop the ice age that they said we were going to have in the next couple of years. Like my ole daddy says,"HALF OF THIS COUNTRY ARE IDIOTS, BUT YOU HAVE TO USE YOUR COMMON SENSE AND LOOK AT HISTORY TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE." We have had global cooling and global warming since the beginning of time, it is just natural. We will look back at all the global warming movies in 30 or 40 years and say what idiots they were.

"REPLY: Your gonna get what what you deserve, GSN. And sadly, on account of you and others who voted the way they did, a lot of people are going to get hurt, even more so than they are now. But that's OK, it was time for "CHANGE!!!!" YES WE CAN YES WE CAN YES WE CAN!!!!!!"

LOL....wow, what would we do without your comedy routine, Oiz? No wonder your political ideology has been rejected the past two elections.

gary mcanally | November 24, 2008 9:01 AM --- I encourage you to read "The Discovery of Global Warming" by Spencer Weart:

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/index.html

Review of above:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E7DF153DF936A35753C1A9659C8B63

LOL....wow, what would we do without your comedy routine, Oiz? No wonder your political ideology has been rejected the past two elections.

REPLY: You mean the truth, Mark??? You just keep on laughing there, paly. When gas prices go up to $7.00 a gallon once your fair haired stud president-select taxes the oil companies for making evil windfall profits, and when he forces us all to drive around in ethanol powered cars (thus driving up the price of food), I'd better not hear how it was all Bush's fault! And it was all because of Bush! I'd just better not! Then we will see how funny my comedy routine is!

America Held Hostage. Beginning January 20, 2009!!!!

By the by, Mark. You still haven't responded to this:

Tell us, what is your forte??? Is it science? Or is it towing the Glo-BULL Warming line, via the "unbiased" media? And what's Barack Obama's forte? Last I looked it was community organizing, NOT SCIENCE. And what's Al Gore's forte? Last I looked it was slinging BS. NOT SCIENCE!!!. Do tell. Or are just going to ignore my challenge like you and most liberals on this board do? Please Splain. What is your forte and the forte of your heros, Mark. I am all ears.

I am still waiting, and so is the rest of the blog.

Mr. Benson, there are as many scientists that do not believe in global warming as so. I think we are coming out of the warming period and going to the cooling period as the natural order of earths cycle. The glaciers increased last year and the cold weather this year will increase the again. How many years of increase will it take to show you people that your scientific thought is flawed.

If you are curious about whether the glaciers are melting, and at what rate, go collect the data from the scientists. Scientists can tell you whatever they want, but data is data.

I'm actually shocked by most of the comments on this page. Is this where the Neanderthals congregate? If you're not working to make something better then what are you really doing here?

I must say Brett that I have not commented on this blog for some time, and just recently started reading it again, only to see this blog completely taken over by Oiznop (aka whatever the flavor of the month is) and his vitriolic political views. Is this about global warming or not? Sheesh!

Look at the number of posts here from Oiznop that are totally political and totally off base. Many others have been warned or censored for posting much less. It is my opinion that this blog has greatly devolved in the past few months.

No offense Brett, but some people no longer comment here because the blog has been taken over by a few radical deniers, not just deniers of AGW, but deniers of anything progressive or anything that goes against their own obtuse perspective.

gary mcanally | November 25, 2008 9:56 AM --- All antional academies of science, all major scietific and egineering societies have statements supporting IPCC's conclusion: AGW is real. There are a few kooks and fools, some who were once scientists, who are in denial; they need pyschological counseling.

If you would care to actually learn some climatology, I suggest starting with "The Discovery of Global Warming" by Spencer Weart:

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/index.html

Review of above:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E7DF153DF936A35753C1A9659C8B63

Greg G: You wrote, "I'm actually shocked by most of the comments on this page. Is this where the Neanderthals congregate? If you're not working to make something better then what are you really doing here?"

Are you shocked by the alarmists or the skeptics, Greg? And what's so wrong that it needs to be made better?

I must say Brett that I have not commented on this blog for some time, and just recently started reading it again, only to see this blog completely taken over by Oiznop (aka whatever the flavor of the month is) and his vitriolic political views.

REPLY: Oh, you mean American views. and please, spare me the "vitiolic" garbage. If anyone is vitriolic, it's the radical tree huggers on the left who were the original instigators of this nonsense. Way back in the 1960's. Remember that?

Is this about global warming or not? Sheesh!

REPLY: Tell it to guys like Mark, Gary B. Bluh Bluh Bluh Iraq war. Bluh Bluh Bluh Economy is Bush's fault. Bluh Bluh Bluh Laissez-Faire bluh bluh bluh......

Look at the number of posts here from Oiznop that are totally political

REPLY: Because the issue has become POLITICAL! When the enviros decide to lobby congress to do something at the expense of the American taxpayer over the last 40 years or so. They are the ones who made it political. We "radical deniers" had NOTHING to do with that happening.

and totally off base. Many others have been warned or censored for posting much less.

REPLY: You mean like issues that in no way shape or form have anything to do with the subject of this blog, right? Like the Iraq war Bluh Bluh Bluh (see above reply).

It is my opinion that this blog has greatly devolved in the past few months.

No offense Brett, but some people no longer comment here because the blog has been taken over by a few radical deniers, not just deniers of AGW, but deniers of anything progressive or anything that goes against their own obtuse perspective.

REPLY: Gary B, that is pure nonsense. I haven't taken over anything. In fact, I haven't posted much of anything in the last month or so. You just don't like to hear a dissenting viewpoint that may in fact be the truth. If you don't like it, then find a blog that presents the side that you want to hear (that being let's inflate the government to control people so we can prevent a man made myth from destroying us all). Maybe one on NBC or CNN or Greenpeace or Ed Schultz's web site is available. And please, don't feed me that lilly livered "progressive" garbage. Progressive is a buzz word for people who have their own agenda. And we "radical deniers" know what that's all about.

Now then: as for you Greg G, and your comment "Is this where the Neanderthals congregate? If you're not working to make something better then what are you really doing here?"

Yep. This is where we knuckle draggers congregate. To thwart your guilt laden elitest line. The same rule of thumb applies to you. If you don't like what you hear or see, then what's keeping you here? This is what I just love about you guys. You can't take a dissenting view so you resort to name calling. Same old gorg from the all caring all feeling all loving enviros. How typical.

Save the planet from hot air. STOP Glo-BULL WHINING!

HA HA Oiznop - good one.

No, I don't mind hearing opposing opinions or listening to dissenting views at all. On the contrary. I just can't stand reading your self-serving comments anymore. I do visit other blogs and I visit many websites that have extremely varying views, from right to left. I'm willing to listen to views from both sides. You are not. It is your view or no view. And no, I don't need to visit blogs that tell me what I want to hear either. Just sick of the crap that you continually spew.
Reply: Gary, easy solution, just don't read his comments and skip past them.

It is great that you have opinions. Express them, it's your right. I might add though, that people might take you more seriously if you leave out the "colorful metaphors", and maybe talk about weather and global warming in a more scientific, realistic and "human" way.

Sorry for you, but Obama won. Sixty-four million people voted for him. 52% of the electorate. People who are far more intelligent that you or me, voted for the guy. If anyone will be held hostage beginning in 2009, it will be you, if you can't turn off Limbaugh and open your eyes/ears to the possibility that you are not always "right".

The guy hasn't even been in office one day yet, and you already "know" what kinds of policies he is going to enact. I wonder how you can have that kind of prescience?

Look in the mirror buddy boy. Anyone or anything that is anti-Oiznop is leftist, socialist, greenie, agenda driven, elitist or flat out wrong, but you are the one to get it all wrong, buck-O. You gotta give a little bit to better society, especially if you want to live in that society. It can't be all about me all of the time. That ain't socialism, that's human decency.

Don't throw that stupid "guilt laden elitist" thing at me either. I could care less if you feel guilty or not.

I was raised that you treat other people with respect and dignity and you help out whenever you can. If that's elitist or socialist, then I guess I don't know the definition.

HA HA Oiznop - good one.

No, I don't mind hearing opposing opinions or listening to dissenting views at all. On the contrary. I just can't stand reading your self-serving comments anymore.

REPLY: And just how are my comments self serving??? Please do splain. I am all ears.

I do visit other blogs and I visit many websites that have extremely varying views, from right to left. I'm willing to listen to views from both sides. You are not.

REPLY: That is not true. I listen to them, and I comment on them. You just don't like the responses.

It is your view or no view.

REPLY: Since when. Brett, I ask you. Have I ever forced anyone not to comment because they have a different view than me??? Oh wanted someone to be censored. The answer is NO! Those who left this blog did so, because they didn't like what they were hearing. A dissenting view. So they ran away in huff like the children that they are. I am sorry Gary B, I feel absolutely no responsibility for the actions of these people. They didn't want to hear it and made the decisiton to run. Why even you telling Brett that this blog has "disintergrated" shows me that you feel the same way. Are you going go away to? Because you don't like what you hear?

And no, I don't need to visit blogs that tell me what I want to hear either. Just sick of the crap that you continually spew.

Reply: Gary, easy solution, just don't read his comments and skip past them.

REPLY: What Brett said.

It is great that you have opinions. Express them, it's your right.

REPLY: Oh, don't worry, I will.

I might add though, that people might take you more seriously if you leave out the "colorful metaphors", and maybe talk about weather and global warming in a more scientific, realistic and "human" way.

REPLY: I am not a scientist. I am an American who responds to nonsense the way I see fit. As for colorful comments, again, please splain. If you are referring to the terms Tree Huggers and Liberals, and Enviros, again, the truth hurts.

Sorry for you, but Obama won. Sixty-four million people voted for him. 52% of the electorate. People who are far more intelligent that you or me, voted for the guy.

REPLY: Oh yeah, sure. You mean like these people here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1KOBMg1Y8

...Yep sure. Intelligent. You betcha!

If anyone will be held hostage beginning in 2009, it will be you, if you can't turn off Limbaugh and open your eyes/ears to the possibility that you are not always "right".

REPLY: Oh, pla-eez. I don't need anyone to tell me that I think Obama's politics are wrong for this country. All I had to do is listen to him speak. Without being mezmerized or hypnotized like those "intelligent" people that voted for him.

The guy hasn't even been in office one day yet, and you already "know" what kinds of policies he is going to enact.

REPLY: Yep. The guy hasn't been in office one day yet, and he's all ready the greatest President that ever lived, as perceived by the "unbiased" media. Don't believe me? Pick up a copy of USA Today, and you will see on the front page that he's already being compared to Kennedy, Roosevelt, and Reagan. And even Lincoln! What a crock!

I wonder how you can have that kind of prescience?

REPLY: The same way the "unbiased" media has. It's no different.

Look in the mirror buddy boy. Anyone or anything that is anti-Oiznop is leftist, socialist, greenie, agenda driven, elitist or flat out wrong, but you are the one to get it all wrong, buck-O.

REPLY: My my my, such "colorful comments." LOL!!! you guys really make me laugh with your hypocrisy.

You gotta give a little bit to better society, especially if you want to live in that society.

REPLY: I have no problem with that as long it's not force on me and my rights as an America, like the enviros want to do. That's where I differ.

Don't throw that stupid "guilt laden elitist" thing at me either.

REPLY: Why? It's stupid because you know it's true, and you can't admit it. Guilt is what the whole left liberal agenda is all about. From Glo-BULL Warming to Failed Wars on Poverty to Raceism. You just can't see it, Gary.

I could care less if you feel guilty or not.

REPLY: Obviously you do. Otherwise you wouldn't have responded.

I was raised that you treat other people with respect and dignity and you help out whenever you can. If that's elitist or socialist, then I guess I don't know the definition.

REPLY: Again, laying down the guilt, GB. It's not going to work. And I respectfully disagree. There, is that better? Have yourself a Merry Little Christmas!..;-D....

OK Brett, I am finished. Sorry but again, I just had to respond.

Reply: Good. You're both finished. Let's move on.