Third coldest October on record in the USA and we need to start painting rocks.........what they need to paint is 'CRETIN' on their foreheads...and 'KICK ME' on their tails.....

And the insanity continues.

BHO....MMMMMMMMM....MMMMMMM......MMMMMMMMM!!!!!!

What is this fascination with calcium carbonate (CaCO3)???

First, they want to dump massive amounts into the ocean, even though the oceans are full of it. Now, they want to paint it on every exposed surface on the planet.

It seems AGWers do not want a green planet. They want a white one that is covered by snow, ice, and lime (CaCO3).

I cannot believe that the collective wisdom of mankind, can result in such collective stupidity. GK.

Steve Rowland:
Third coldest October on record in the USA and we need to start painting rocks.........what they need to paint is 'CRETIN' on their foreheads...and 'KICK ME' on their tails.....

Posted by Steve Rowland | November 10, 2009 8:59 AM

Ah, but November has been above average here in the US.

Must be the atmosphere warming the oceans and lakes and keeping us warm!

Yeah, that how AGW works, right? The CO2 warms everything.

It would be interesting to see what is responsible for the pronounced warming of November.

I'd cut a piece of my ear off for that job..
V. Van Gogh

I have design for a painting helicopter...Leo DaVinci

I have no problem with painting the roads and roofs white. From my Tennis days I am weary about painting the roads white. It doesn't take much moisture to make the white lines on a tennis court very slippery. I would not want the roads painted white until they find a way to make sure the paint doesn't turn the roads into skating rinks.
In my state the DOT has been working hard to clear trees from the road banks to make sure the pavement gets full sunlight. If we could just plant trees in parking lots and in the medians on highways we can shade the pavement, make our cities more beautiful and help the environment. If we could shade enough pavement we wouldn't need the paint. Senator Edwards clear cut almost 100 acres when he built his mansion. Perhaps there should be a penalty when someone devastates their property for no reason.

what about the lizards and other reptiles that depend on the heat given off by sun-warmed rocks in order to bring their body temperature up?

does no one care about the poor lizards!!!

Why am I reminded of the "duck and cover" drills I remember from my grade-school days?

I know it's well-intentioned. I remained to be convinced that it would have any measurable impact on climate change.

Can't they just let nature alone. Don't fix the result, fix the source of the problem.

I'm sure Knuckle will paint his backyard in black to get some warming - he's so cold.

Steve Rowland, it's not all the US that got the third coldest october record. Elsewhere it was normal and some got it warmer.

How about using "2000 Lb Climate-Buster Paint Bombs" dropped form B52s !

Better yet, if they use the B2 Stealth Bomber, they just might be able to sneak up on globull warming and catch it while it is still cooling !

More realistically, use white roofs like the ones over the rental car parking garages at Bush Intercontinental Airport, Houston, TX on more buildings in urban areas. When asphalt composition roofs in the suburbs need new shingles, use bright white painted metal instead and get a 50 year roof.

Vegetative roofs also help a lot. So do more white painted vehicles...feel the metal of the white ones vs any other color in a parking lot on a sunny day. White paint inside means less lighting is needed and this saves money and energy.

"Eduardo Gold, a Peruvian scientist and president of Glaciers of Peru says that painting highly reflective white paint over rock and ground that has been exposed by receding glaciers is a way to combat global warming."

It is to guffaw!
The AGW crowd are becoming caricatures of themselves.

always beware of unintended consequences.
when the cooling returns and it will now there will be nothing to slow down the advance of the glaciers because all the reflected heat will be sent to the atmosphere(actually causing more global warming?) and the ground will be colder and able to handle more snow and ice faster. If you release a parcel of air from the surface it rises until it reaches the air level with similar properties. but momentum carries it past this level and it slows down and eventually settles at that level. the same thing could happen to a glacier that suddenly has an easier path to move down consequently it may become even a bigger and perhaps more dangerous glacier to humans than it previous was. just food for thought loub

Brett:

Some of us respectfully disagree.....

For Example:

"The notion that man made CO2 is causing -- or ever will cause -- a climate crisis is, by far, the biggest, most dangerous and most destructive hoax ever perpetrated on the human race.

The climate is changing. It always has and always will.
Human activity has probably caused a tiny amount of beneficial warming.
There is nothing even remotely unusual about current temperatures.
Burning hydrocarbons as fuel will never cause catastrophic climate change.
Mother Nature is guaranteed to cause catastrophic climate change.
1,000 foot tall glaciers will probably scrape New York City off the map.
That will happen during the next glaciation -- in about 50,000 years."

Source:
http://sbvor.blogspot.com/2009/03/climate-change-101.html

I'm just sayin'........

Who's going to pay for these paint jobs? I just have to laugh every time a liberal comes up with a nonsensical remedy to save the earth.
Liberals believe money grows on trees and have no shame when it comes to professing they have the answers to lifes problems.
Just look at Obamanomics,the man thinks he's got all the answers to cure whats wrong with our country and he's gonna bankrupt us on his way out of washington in 2012.
Brett I'm sorry,but I think your going off the deep end if you honestly take this idea seriously.

Reply: Honestly Harry......I did not take this one too seriously, but it did draw plenty of response.

History is full of examples where geo-engineering, species transplantation and introduction and other attempts to modify nature have had unintended consequences.

For example, what happens when rain or glacier runoff leaches the lime-based paint down into the lake shown in the photo?

Bad, bad, bad idea.

Gold could have gone further and suggested adding white dye to all oceans, rivers and lakes - perhaps this could be milk and we could solve all the world's hunger problems at the same time!

Gold is an example of a crazy climate alarmist who is probably looking for research or aid money to feather his own nest.

Ship down millions of Pelicans and Snow Geese, feed them tons of feed, and let them do their thing all over the rocks.

I can see it now, the planet is saved by them massive diarrhea droppings of Pelicans and Geese.

C'mon! When is this incredible nonsense going to stop...when???

a warm front this week in new england,i think i should paint my street white so i can feel cold ,as we all know with global warming it will never get cold again?i think thats good because the greedy people on wall street keep raising the price of a barrell of oil

Am I the only one tired of these wacky ideas. This sounds like a 3rd grade science fair entry from a student who did it at the last minute.
Leave the rocks alone! Maybe there is some wildlife that needs the rocks to be black to use for camouflage. Painting them white would spell dome for that organism.

Seriously, clean the air, clean the oceans, recycle what we can and leave the Earth alone.

Climate change is part of the Earth's system both clod and warm!
Adapt to survive.

Steve Rowland: You wrote, "Third coldest October on record in the USA and we need to start painting rocks.........what they need to paint is 'CRETIN' on their foreheads...and 'KICK ME' on their tails....."

Thanks. That made me laugh and I needed it this morning. (I had an intermittent internet connection while I was trying to reply to comments on my recent post at WUWT.)

Oh my gosh, stop already! When I first started teaching in the early 1970's, all we heard about (and were supposed to teach about!) was that the Earth was headed into another Ice Age. The solution many thought would work? Dump coal ash on the glaciers and arctic areas to warm them up and prevent further cooling. Luckily, that never occurred. And guess what? The planet warmed all by itself! Climate is cyclic.

And, October here in upstate NY made the 8th month this year of below normal temperatures.

Brett-

The 'ART' of combating Global Warming?

I think Mr. Gold has been chewing too many coca leaves.

This is ridiculous.

Regg my friend it wasn't just the US, NZ coldest in 64 yrs and so on.

RSS and UAH temps 0.282 °C above norm globally.

We painted the rocks around Post Headquarters white at one of the Bases I was stationed at in the Army. It did not make it any cooler as I recall.

According to this source, a painstaking quantitative analysis reveals that painting as a means of micromanaging the climate will:

"cost you [tax payers] $17 trillion to reduce global temperature by just 0.2 Fahrenheit degrees."

And, that is a generous assumption based upon absurd estimates of future warming.

But, hey! It sure does feel good (until the bill comes due).

Click here for a brief overview of climate change science.

Mark;
Good idea.
We could also mandate that everyone must dye their hair platinum blond as well.
Just imagine, 6.5 Billion Blond Reflectors.
Mayby only let really white people on beaches too.

Oh Oh... And we could add dye to the water to make it white too.
And maybe genetically engineer trees with white leaves.

and....

LOL

Box of Rocks: Duh? Today is November 11, give it a few more days, huh........nothing special though, natural weather and natural climate....

Regg: But it's not supposed to be normal. Supposed to be getting steadily warmer and warmer.........at least according to the AGW Hysterics....besides check your data, it ain't just the US.

Bob T: Thank you kind sir, glad I could make your day....gotta laugh sometime in spite of the 24/7 propaganda pump..

Rick of the sierra-love your idea but i see a problem the adven of the h1g1 flue also known as the goose flu loub

Didn't Peru have a massive cold spell that killed 500 kids earlier this year? The August numbers were showing 516 Peruvians duying of pneumonia brought on by exposure to excess cold. Most of the kids were little kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0XXx45hQ8A

The Chinese are becoming adept at combatting global warming impacts at home. I think that we need to cascade out their efforts around the world so that we can get much more benefits like this, although a wee bit of fine tuning might be in order: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aBShzQEZgx0E&pos=9

"G. Karst:
What is this fascination with calcium carbonate (CaCO3)???

First, they want to dump massive amounts into the ocean, even though the oceans are full of it. Now, they want to paint it on every exposed surface on the planet.

It seems AGWers do not want a green planet. They want a white one that is covered by snow, ice, and lime (CaCO3).

I cannot believe that the collective wisdom of mankind, can result in such collective stupidity. GK"

You are abolutely right. While it is not true that we want a planet covered in Ice and Snow (a bit of an exaggeration), I don't think Geo-Engineering solves anything no matter what your stance is. I think its OK to have a white roof if you want but thats just to cut energy costs. This is a poorly concieved idea to begin with based on a poorly concieved notion. Bear in mind that this person is obviously a fringe element and not representative of the AGW community at large. I think we could have chosen a better article for this installment.

I think everyone here has reached a consensus!

Stephen and Steve, please read back what i wrote.

I talked about the US (not the hole world) - and said it was not all the US that got it cold. That means that elsewhere in the US it was either normal and above and much above at some places.

Figures published 2-3 days later are clearly showing it as well. Continantal US got it cold, but up north (Alaska) got it quite warm (hot). Much of the east cost got it warmer or near normal (still above).

The point is not about how cold or warm places are - what i noticed is the big swings of the temps going from one extreme to the other and that is happening on short terms (single year) and long terms (30 or more years). There seems to be less and less average places - mostly what i see/read about are extremes. If you push aside all the hipe about AGW believers and skeptics, what you can see is how much extremes we're facing all over the world. Nature always tries to balance itself - maybe the climate change (be it warming or cooling) is happening to fast and that is causing all those extremes. Just food for thought.

By the way, look at the warm temps in central Europe, and northern Russia (you know... Siberia a warm place to be, LOL ).

Thanks for reading.

Are you just slow at moderating new commentators?

Or, should I request your site be added to the infamous list of AGW censors?

Reply: SBVOR. Your comments have been posted. We have a spam filter (lots of junk gets sent our way on a daily basis) that will automatically put a comment into the junk folder if it has 2 or more links. Normally, people just let me know if they have sent a comment with more than 2 links and I will manually get it out of the junk folder and post it. Sorry about the hassle. Brett.

To RD..

The Chinese seeded the clouds to get precipitation - not snow. They are not trying to control the temperature but the precipitation. It was just enought cold to get it in snow - wet snow by the way.

Considering the impacts it caused, i'm not sure it worth the effort. They needed rain, but ended up with snow. Rain does not jam your city, your airport, but snow can and it did. So i'm not sure they will do it again when temps are near the freezing point. Basically this time, it blew in their face - apprentice sorcerer (?!?)

That has nothing to do with GW or climate change. China needs water - and they are ready to do whatever they can to get precipitation. Even if it is often cloudy, it does'nt rain much and 2009 has been very dry - the worst drought country wise. Seeding clouds helps to create precipitation and that's what they are looking for.

I thiink it should be painted green with
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivine
to gently react with CO2 to form carbonates, principally
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_carbonate
which is white.

Which was what is wanted, yes? :-)

Regg | November 12, 2009 4:15 PM

The lesson here is: when man intervenes in weather, completely unexpected results can and often happens. How much more dangerous is climate intervention. Results may be unexpected and as some like to say "catastrophic". GK

To Regg:

You missed it where I said "global warming impacts." Warm by itself is not bad - it is only bad if you have net negative impacts from it.

The Beijing area has had a long-standing drought and so they have been seeding clouds. The propaganda from the AGW alarmists is that global warming will mean much more droughts etc.. That is why I noted that the Chinese are addressing "global warming impacts" as the AGW crowd seem to believe that all major droughts occur because of global warming.

Creating a blizzard that paralyzes a city is just one cautionary note as people come up with concepts to "geoengineer" the entire planet. Presumably the geoengineering would casue some events that could be devastating for places that would never have been impacted without the geoengineering.

By the way, snowfall can be a very good way of getting water to infiltrate into groundwater as it slowly melts, especially if the ground is not frozen.

There is an intersting article in Bloomber today about how environmental protection of Appalachian streams to protect mayflies may severly impact mountaintop mining: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a.yMJQ7Y5a6o

This goes back to a theme that I have posted on before. Many of our carbon-based energy sources have serious environmental impacts during the extraction, use, and disposal phases that are poorly addressed. Getting immediate envrionmental protection returns from better protection will also cause the cost of those energy sources to rise to the actual cost to society. That will make other energy sources more cost-competitive if they are environmentally freindly.

Carbon emmisions are one of the least important envrionmental impacts from these energy sources. That is why cap-and-trade may end up being a negative for society overall. Unfortuantely, very few economists have clean water and air in their economic models so it is difficult to quantify.

It is truly bizarre that the environmental community has decided to take up a cause that is deparately desired by the major investment banks so that they will have an entire new market to game. In case you wondered about the gaming element, here is an interesting article from today about how a major NYC investment bank, along with a one Canadian bank, are manipualting the silver market: http://seekingalpha.com/article/173221-the-art-of-silver-manipulation

Brett (November 12, 2009 3:59 PM),

Thank you for the explanation.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

SBVOR

Reply: Not a problem. It happens a lot.

A story from today's newspaper about the emerald ash borer that may be in the middle of causing ash trees (multiple species) to go extinct in North America: http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/11/how_a_tiny_beetle_can_take_dow.html

We have introduction of two diseases, Dutch elm disease and chestnut blight, from overseas in the past century that has devastated our forests. We now have the emerald ash borer imported from Asia that is likely to wipe out ash trees. The Asian long-horned beetle that could devestate maples is also out there but is better controlled.

None of these devastating impacts have anything to do with global warming. For some reason, all of the attention is focused on lodgepole pines impacted by native beetles where a major part of the problem arises from 70 years of artificial suppresion of forest fires in an ecosystem evolved to rejuvenate itself regularly through forest fires.

Similarly, we are seeing global collapse of fisheries due to commercial over-fishing: http://www.tnr.com/article/environment-energy/aquacalypse-now?page=0,0

This also has nothing to do with global warming. Global warming would only provide a final polishing in some local fisheries.

Reducing carbon emissions will accomplish little in preventing massive ecosystem collapse and extinctions if our daily commercial actions continue to cause the level of damage that they have over the past century. You are being hood-winked by large commercial and government interests if you allow your attention to be diverted to cap-and-trade as "The Answer."

Our planet's ecosystems are actually fairly well adapted to substantial temperature changes. Otherwise, we would now be in an ecosystem desert given the roller-coaster of temperatures and sea levels that the world has seen over the past million years. We have only had the current version of the world's ecosystem for a few thousand years since the ice sheets and massive lakes only disappeared about 8,000 years ago. It took several thousand more years for plants and animals to finish moving into the physical niches that they now occupy, especially in the Northern Hemisphere. Our "normal" only represents about 3-5% of the past 100,000 years and a much smaller percentage of the past million years. Many of the shallow water coral reefs that are supposedly so susceptible to sea level changes were slammed with a 200 foot sea level rise over about 5,000 years that occurred when the glaciers melted and the inland lakes burst into the world's oceans.

"RD:

The Beijing area has had a long-standing drought and so they have been seeding clouds"

I wonder, could this be considered "stealing" rain from people downwind?

rd | November 13, 2009 12:09 PM

"environmental protection of Appalachian streams to protect mayflies may severly impact mountaintop mining"

I suspect the protection of mayflies is just a PC technical excuse for a political decision.

Is there some real threat to mayfly population in the area? GK

rd-

Recent article by AP describes fisheries in Japan that are being devastated by a huge influx of 'warm' water jellyfish. So many that they are ripping nets, even capsizing a 10 ton trawler, they say the phytoplankton that the jellyfish thrive on has increased because of 'Global Warming'.

see- http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/climate_09_jellyfish_menace

To G Karst:

Insect populations, such as mayflies and blackflies, are often very susceptible to degraded surface water. These insects are the backbone of the ecosystems in these streams, which include trout etc. at the higher end of the food chain. Also, if these insects can't live, then that surface water probably can't be used as drinking water.

There was an interesting story in Rochester, NY about 15 years ago when a person showed up in the hospital emergency room with a nasty rash on the back of their neck. The doctors and nurses on staff couldn't identify the cause of it. Eventually, a doctor came by who had practiced in the Adirondacks and immediately diagnosed it as blackfly bites. It turned out that pollution had so degraded the water quality of creeks in the area that insect populations that required clean water had not been able to survive for over 100 years. The Clean Water Act improvements covering everything from sanitary sewer system to construction site storm water had finally gotten the creeks back to the point where they could sustain a healthy ecosystem.

I am not against things like coal. I just think that the real costs of things need to be factored in to decision-making. I think CO2 is way down the list of real costs that need to be addressed in resource extraction, usage, and disposal.

To Idecline:

From the AP story you cite:

"Increasingly polluted waters — off China, for example — boost growth of the microscopic plankton that "jellies" feed upon, while overfishing has eliminated many of the jellyfish's predators and cut down on competitors for plankton feed."

"He concluded China's coastal waters offered a perfect breeding ground: Agricultural and sewage runoff are spurring plankton growth, and fish catches are declining. The waters of the Yellow Sea, meanwhile, have warmed as much as 1.7 degrees C (3 degrees F) over the past quarter-century."

"Even if populations explode, their numbers may be limited in the long term by other factors, including food and currents. In a paper last year, researchers concluded jellyfish numbers in the Bering Sea — which by 2000 were 40 times higher than in 1982 — declined even as temperatures have hit record highs. "They were still well ahead of their historic averages for that region," said co-author Lorenzo Ciannelli of Oregon State University. "But clearly jellyfish populations are not merely a function of water temperature.""

"Addressing the surge in jellyfish blooms in most places will require long-term fixes, such as introducing fishing quotas and pollution controls, as well as capping greenhouse gas emissions to control global warming, experts said."

Yes, locally warm water plays a role but it is highly unlikely that the Nomura jellyfish would be much of an issue without huge pollution inputs and overfishing that removes jellyfish predators. This is repeated around the world. The main problem is often pollution, deforestation, and over-harvesting that warming conditions then give the coup de grace to.

Many of the problems ascribed to global warming are actually caused by other more mundane actions. However, I don't see Al Gore thumping his drum for global water pollution cuts, especially from agriculture, and massive fishing quota reductions.

Rd:

We are in agreement in nearly all things. Most of your postings make my postings redundant, and you have saved me a lot of writing!

However, concern for blackflies and their kin, are not one of them. Any time, one of those creeks, is depleted of mayflies and blackflies, feel free to dredge my springs, for any remedial efforts (no fish to disturb). You may keep any mosquito nymphs entrained in the sediments also. Bonus all around.

Now if I can only find a state who will take my rat population also. Relocation is such a wonderful concept.

Cities have been live trapping raccoons, skunks, coyotes and releasing them here in the countryside also. Locals are getting so angry, there is talk of a counter move of trapping coons, coyotes, skunks and releasing them in city parks. History will remember this as the great varmint war. An adult woman was recently killed by coyotes, while hiking alone. GK